China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft

iantsai

Junior Member
Registered Member
At this point there are well over 20 Y20 in service, no? Perhaps even reaching 30?
And the tanker variant is being delivered to active service but in low single digit numbers?
Is that the current situation?
Also, are there any detailed images of the tanker variant that would show if the plane has retained the cargo doors or if it was fully optimized to serve as a tanker?
The tanker variant seems to be a standard cargo variant with two probe-and-drogue refueling pods installed at the outside section of the wings and no flying boom, as far as the photos revealed.
 

weig2000

Captain
All this is a bit off topic thread, but I'm more than happy to continue the discussion in the appropriate thread.

But with that said between the pandemic, issues with the MAX, and delays to the 777x program, GE is burning through gobs of cash. They are in desperate need of cash flow to recover from one of the most disastrous periods in history, and that money won't be sufficient from local and European demand (case and point the airline I worked for has been in talks with Boeing and GE to delay their 777 and Dreamliner orders). Despite how many MAXs United pledges to buy, its pennies compared to the commercial airline market in China. The lobbying arm of GE cannot afford to allow the federal government to place further trade embargoes on Chinese business, and similarly the US Commerce Department cannot afford to let one of it's leading engineering companies suffer much longer and risk going under.

Based on operational manuals from my Airbus differences course (so that I could fly the A320ceo and neo), the fuel burn difference according between the IAE engine (the airline I worked for didn't use CFMs) and the LEAP is absolutely massive. We'd burn like 2.2 tons per hour on the IAE, but the manuals say that number goes down to ~1.8t at 30000ft. Two of my best friends work for another airline recently had a go at the MAX, and they told me they were burning ~1.6t at 40000ft with the LEAP. While I won't say the IAE/CFM engines are uneconomic or unprofitable, the margins and operational savings between engine generations is just mind blowing-ly massive - you won't lose tons of money operating an engine from the CFM56 generation, you're saving a helluva lot more from the LEAP.

I'm sure if push comes to shove in the trade war that a more commercially friendly variant of the WS-20 can be spun off as a stop gap for the CJ-1000 and provide comparable performance to the CFM56.... but realistically I just can't see how the Biden Administration can afford the risk of killing off a company that's crucial to national security despite how sour Sino-American relations are currently. All signs point to the CJ-1000 becoming a reality, GE and the US best milk the cow while they still can... especially when there aren't a whole lot of alternate sources of funding/income.

The respective fiascoes at GE and Boeing, two of the US's best engineering and manufacturing companies, plus the pandemic, have bought C919 (and CJ1000) precious time to run to the finish line. The aviation market won't recover to the pre-pandemic level until 2024 at the earliest. We heard there were internal discussions within the US government on whether to put COMAC on the entity-list, but the plan was eventually scrapped. We haven't heard anything of similar nature ever since. The US and Boeing are pressuring China to re-certify MAX and there appears to be some progress there.
 
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Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
Comac reliance on western equipment is much more extensive than just the engines. The US does not need to explicitly sanction COMAC to retard the development of COMAC products. I would not say COMAC is any closer now to being able to compete on the international market than before 737Max debacle. If anything, it is farther now than it might have seemed at the end of 2019.
 

weig2000

Captain
I don't think COMAC has any realistic plan to push C919 onto the international market any time soon. In fact, I even doubt COMAC is placing much priority on obtaining FAA certification as it did before, although EASA certification is probably still pursued. China will rely on its huge domestic market. The US hostility to China since Trump administration and Biden's Trump+ China policy have changed everything.

C919 will still be venerable to US sanctions after 2025, simply because it depends on so many foreign inputs. But the current situation has bought some time for COMAC, that is for sure. When C919 program was started, it followed the model and assumption of international cooperation, with the long-term goal of being indigenous in major subsystems (being as insecure as China has always been in strategic programs). Most of the foreign suppliers were required to set up joint ventures in China. As usual, China also has Plan B for most of these subsystems. The Huawei and other sanctions will accelerate the development of the indigenous subsystems and technologies.
 

crash8pilot

Junior Member
Registered Member
Thats right. This C919/CJ1000 is off-topic.
And I also had this to say:
All this is a bit off topic thread, but I'm more than happy to continue the discussion in the appropriate thread.
So unless you want to continue the discussion or have anything to add about what I posted, whether it be about Chinese transport aircraft (to which we'll discuss on the current thread) or WS-20 as it pertains to Chinese commercial and civil aircraft operations (to which I suggest we continue said discussion on the C919 thread), I suggest that you stop taking what I posted out of context.
 

by78

General
I know this has probably been covered before but can the W-20 act as a stopgap for the CJ-1000A and what are it’s disadvantages in comparison i.e. why it would not be used for C-919 primary engine? I’m assuming it’s mostly for cost and fuel efficiency?

FYI, you should have posed the question in either the C919 or the Chinese Engine Development thread, or even the Ask Anything thread.
 
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