China's Space Program Thread II

[tamsen_ikard]

China has been known for being good in mass production and scaling up quickly. Is there any reason why China hasnt been able to scale up rocket and satellite building as much as in other sectors?

What's the point? Other than Beidou and military satellites, the rest of space has no strategic need. Space is completely exposed. Anything you put into orbit can be tracked and destroyed with ease. So, you cannot put anything valuable that is actually useful in a Superpower war.

In a true superpower war between US and China, all the satellites will be destroyed as a first priority. Then we are back to old ways of fighting without GPS and without constant sat surveillence.

Elon Musk's starlink: How is it useful when fiber optic cable internet exists all over the world. its another pointless technology to be honest. And if you are going to bring war time uses of Starlink, they won't survive in a superpower war. So, only potential use of Star link is in a proxy war like Ukraine.

Reusable space technology is nice to have but not strategic.

China's space program is one of the lowest budget items in China's govt spending. They probably use 2-3 billion dollars per year on this. China focuses more on infrastracture on the ground. Things like roads, rails, computer chip fabs and so on.

BTW, if we are counting numbers. China has 260+ military satellites according to IISS, more than US.

 

[Taiban]

Yuxing-03 08

Can someone please elucidate more details of Yuxing constellationa

 

[sunnymaxi]

Exclusive -

Landspace has officially announced that its 200-ton full-flow staged combustion methane engine, the "Blue Flame," has completed at least one full-system test run.

The Blue Flame (BF-20) is a 200-ton full-flow staged combustion liquid oxygen-methane engine, for which Landspace initiated demonstration and research work at the end of 2021.

Engine Specifications -

Fuel methane oxidizer liquid oxygen
mixture ratio 3.6 (adjustable by ±8%)
Fuel cycle mode full flow staged combustion cycle
Thrust adjustment range 40%~120%

Thrust (vacuum) 2366 kN
Thrust (sea level) 2200 kN
Specific impulse (vacuum) 3461 m/s
Specific impulse (sea level) 3219 m/s
Combustion chamber pressure 26 MPa

Its technical level has reached that of SpaceX's Raptor 2 liquid oxygen-methane engine..

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@Tomboy ..

 

[tiancai8888]

Engine Specifications -

Fuel methane oxidizer liquid oxygen
mixture ratio 3.6 (adjustable by ±8%)
Fuel cycle mode full flow staged combustion cycle
Thrust adjustment range 40%~120%

Thrust (vacuum) 2366 kN
Thrust (sea level) 2200 kN
Specific impulse (vacuum) 3461 m/s
Specific impulse (sea level) 3219 m/s
Combustion chamber pressure 26 MPa

Where you get specs?

I found it, just ignore the question

 

[sunnymaxi]

Where you get specs?

this is speculated data and from research paper ''Current Development Status of Liquid Oxygen-Methane Engines'' posted on Weibo by many accounts.

 

[Michael90]

Elon Musk's starlink: How is it useful when fiber optic cable internet exists all over the world. its another pointless technology to be honest

So you are saying Chinese leaders are wrong in trying to establish a SpaceX-like Starlink system i.e Guowang and spacesail since they are pointless?
You do realise that China is still trying to scale up her rocket and satellite launches capabilities/rate like spaceX so they can meet the launch target for this leo satellite system before the space allocated to them by the International Telecommunication Union (ITU), which is necessary to maintain its allocated radio spectrum and orbital slots runs out right? Why will they be putting themselves into so mkch hassle to achieve this if it was useless as you claimed? Lol. If anything the Ukraine war and starlink use as shown how important space and this system can be.

China's space program is one of the lowest budget items in China's govt spending. They probably use 2-3 billion dollars per year on this.

I don't know where you get that figure. There is zero chance that chinas space budget is a mere $1 or 2 billion, especially with all the projects they are currently carrying out . Lol. Dude,so you really believe China spends less than Russia($4billion) E.U($8.5billion) and same or less than India($1.6billion) in space? Lool
China spends at lesst $9 to $10 billion on her space industry and that's the most pessimistic/conservative estimate actually. .

 

[Asug]

So you are saying Chinese leaders are wrong in trying to establish a SpaceX-like Starlink system i.e Guowang and spacesail since they are pointless?
You do realise that China is still trying to scale up her rocket and satellite launches capabilities/rate like spaceX so they can meet the launch target for this leo satellite system before the space allocated to them by the International Telecommunication Union (ITU), which is necessary to maintain its allocated radio spectrum and orbital slots runs out right? Why will they be putting themselves into so mkch hassle to achieve this if it was useless as you claimed? Lol. If anything the Ukraine war and starlink use as shown how important space and this system can be.

I don't know where you get that figure. There is zero chance that chinas space budget is a mere $1 or 2 billion, especially with all the projects they are currently carrying out . Lol. Dude,so you really believe China spends less than Russia($4billion) E.U($8.5billion) and same or less than India($1.6billion) in space? Lool
China spends at lesst $9 billion in space industry and thats the most pessimistic/conservative estimate .

There were 9 billion 5 years ago... "whilst China continued to maintain its second-place ranking, with an estimated $8.9 billion budget, representing an approximate threefold increase since the early 2000s."

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[sunnymaxi]

So you are saying Chinese leaders are wrong in trying to establish a SpaceX-like Starlink system i.e Guowang and spacesail since they are pointless?
You do realise that China is still trying to scale up her rocket and satellite launches capabilities/rate like spaceX so they can meet the launch target for this leo satellite system before the space allocated to them is runs out right? Why will they be putting themselves into so mkch hassle to achieve this if it was useless as you claimed? Lol. If anything the Ukraine war and starlink use as shown how important space and this system can be.

I don't know where you get that figure. There is zero chance that chinas space budget is a mere $1 or 2 billion, especially with all the projects they are currently carrying out . Lol. Dude,so you really believe China spends less than Russia($4billion) E.U($8.5billion) and same or less than India($1.6billion) in space? Lool
China spends at lesst $9 billion in space industry and thats the most pessimistic/conservative estimate .

CNSA has double digit budget so figure given by @Tasmen is not accurate.
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and regarding your question about ''Satellite and rocket production capacity''. soon i shall do a detailed post.

the short answer is, up until 2020 Space wasn't the top priority so you see shortcomings. but right now in Wenchang there are 8 new Launch pads have constructed/under construction.. there are three Mega satellite production facilities inaugurated.. up to 600-1000 satellite annually. LM6/LM8 and LM12 all these national space rockets production have accelerated this year.

government allowed private players in 2014. all these private companies mostly founded by ex-CNSA engineers. in initial years, they only worked to establish footprints , supply line and build up the workforce. though private space firms didn't achieve much success yet but they are able to create sufficient industrial base. which is now helping them to build bigger rockets.

we have right now at least 5-6 heavy lift rockets from private firms.. i m not saying all will be successful but most likely national space agency will get helping hand from private firms in coming years.

Chinese space industry currently is in transition phase. you will see results in 2027..

 

[gelgoog]

I think there are way too many players. Three private launch companies capable of GTO launch would have been more than enough. I hope they don't all start doing superheavy rockets. Gigantic waste of money when there are other priorities in aerospace.

There should be funding on nuclear upper stages for deep space missions and transport aircraft designs still don't address several segments.

 

[tamsen_ikard]

So you are saying Chinese leaders are wrong in trying to establish a SpaceX-like Starlink system i.e Guowang and spacesail since they are pointless?
You do realise that China is still trying to scale up her rocket and satellite launches capabilities/rate like spaceX so they can meet the launch target for this leo satellite system before the space allocated to them by the International Telecommunication Union (ITU), which is necessary to maintain its allocated radio spectrum and orbital slots runs out right? Why will they be putting themselves into so mkch hassle to achieve this if it was useless as you claimed? Lol. If anything the Ukraine war and starlink use as shown how important space and this system can be.

I don't know where you get that figure. There is zero chance that chinas space budget is a mere $1 or 2 billion, especially with all the projects they are currently carrying out . Lol. Dude,so you really believe China spends less than Russia($4billion) E.U($8.5billion) and same or less than India($1.6billion) in space? Lool
China spends at lesst $9 to $10 billion on her space industry and that's the most pessimistic/conservative estimate actually. .

If starlink was that strategic then China's central space agency and SOEs will be developing it. But they left it to private rocket companies. They are focusing on promoting the development of private rocket companies similar to SpaceX. The focus is on developing an industry instead of developing a capability.

That shows that Starlink is not that strategic. And when you really think about it, there not much point of satellite internet when fiber optic is overwhelmingly superior. Even poorer places in Africa will want fiber optic, not satellite internet.

So, what is the point of starlink other than wartime capability? however, starlink satellites are not designed for survellience, they are designed for providing internet. So, their wartime capability is again limited.

So, overall starlink is not that big of a deal. But a private space industry is quite important for the future. Therefore, China is promoting the growth of the industry rather than promoting the growth of the capability.