China's Space Program Thread II

tphuang

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Geely's LEO constellation is getting some additions

It gets its satellites built in one of the satellite factory China is building right now

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looks like Taizhou is Geely's own factory. I'm surprised by that.

But yeah, they have standardized supply chain and satellite factories in China though. Quite a few locations
 

taxiya

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Geely's LEO constellation is getting some additions

It gets its satellites built in one of the satellite factory China is building right now

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

looks like Taizhou is Geely's own factory. I'm surprised by that.

But yeah, they have standardized supply chain and satellite factories in China though. Quite a few locations
It shouldn't be a surprise. Geely's satellite business is conducted by 时空道宇
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which Geely owns 70% shares. It employs people from the pool of Chinese space education like all other commercial companies. Chinese space (also aircraft) education produces more engineers than the SOEs (CASC, CASIC, CAC, SAC, XAC etc.) can obsorb. Many graduates couldn't find a job in these SOEs. So both from capital and competence perspective, Geely owns a factory isn't surprise. I remember that most of my classmates (EE) end up in jobs not utilizing what we were trained for.
 
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taxiya

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looks like they are sanctioning Viasat here. Now, ChinaSat has relationship with Viasat in the Chinese airspace. So I wonder what it does to that relationship
Unlike other weapon producers, Viasat is like Cisco. By working with ChinaSat, they likely sell or operate their ground stations and equipments in China. My understanding is that they will loose control of these equipments. If Viasat sold something to ChinaSat but not paid yet, they won't get paid. Operation of them will be in the hands of ChinaSat, Viasat can not move them out, nor withdraw by selling it to ChinaSat. Essentially it is kind of "confistication".

BTW, here is the Chinese version of the sanction.
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antiterror13

Brigadier
It shouldn't be a surprise. Geely's satellite business is conducted by 时空道宇
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which Geely owns 70% shares. It employs people from the pool of Chinese space education like all other commercial companies. Chinese space (also aircraft) education produces more engineers than the SOEs (CASC, CASIC, CAC, SAC, XAC etc.) can obsorb. Many graduates couldn't find a job in these SOEs. So both from capital and competence perspective, Geely owns a factory isn't surprise. I remember that most of my classmates (EE) end up in jobs not utilizing what we were trained for.

Do Chinese SOEs only hire the best of the best engineers? does it mean that the private only able to hire the extremely good engineers but not the best of the best ? I just wondering ..... or is there any other consideration for the Chinese SOEs to hire engineers? (e.g ethnicity, gender, age, etc)
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Unlike other weapon producers, Viasat is like Cisco. By working with ChinaSat, they likely sell or operate their ground stations and equipments in China. My understanding is that they will loose control of these equipments. If Viasat sold something to ChinaSat but not paid yet, they won't get paid. Operation of them will be in the hands of ChinaSat, Viasat can not move them out, nor withdraw by selling it to ChinaSat. Essentially it is kind of "confistication".

BTW, here is the Chinese version of the sanction.
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Great, China now started to use the economic and great power to do similar thing what the US has been doing for decades

I am hopeful (and confident) that China will do it with extreme caution ...
 

tacoburger

Junior Member
Registered Member
So plenty have been written about Starlink and the Guowang/G60 potential for military use and they honestly could have been funded purely off that use alone. But can we talk about their actual official use of global satellite internet? I'm doing some reading about and there's basically no details on Guowang/G60 as an actual business, which is not a good sign considering that the network is being launched on mass this year.

I will add my own 2 cents. For starlink, it's mainly for international use, America already has good internet coverage and the country is mainly flat land that's easy to have put up cell towers and fiber networks. In contrast, China still has a large rural population that doesn't have reliable internet access and considering that large parts of the country is remote, rural, mountainous, deserts and has a low population density, satellite internet is probably a much better altenative then trying to get a fibre network into every corner of Tibet for example. This could be what truly gets all of China online. In this regard, China probably has a huge domsetic market for Guowang compared to Starlink. For international markets, Guowang is basically dead in western markets, China might as well not try, or get Huawei-ed. And Starlink is gaining customers at a steady rate, China will want to go for a big push in centeral asia/Africa before the market gets snatched up by Starlink.

So what's the status on the ground terminals? Are they ready to be shipped soon? What size are they compared to Starlink's terminals? How much will they cost? What will be the cost of a monthly Guowang/G60 subscription? Will they mainly be using domestic semiconductors? What are their internet speeds? How many people can the network support? How will international customers sign up for Guowang internet? Starlink needs a ground terminal for now, but there's plans for next generation Starlink and phones to allow for Mb/s satellite internet without need for a ground terminal, is there similar plans for Guowang/G60?

As mentioned above, China still has huge parts of the population and parts of the country that don't have access to reiable internet, will they get subsidized versions of Guowang/G60?-I can think of no better way to combat rural poverty then that, giving every remote mountain village a free Guowang terminal and a free subscription. What about international customers, will China be subsidizing belt and road countries access to Guowang/G60? How will global satellite internet work with the great firewall? How else will China try to lure other countries into the network? What about countries like Russia, which will also benefit greatly from satellite internet, both in their remote far east region and also the war and how might sanctions play into that?

I think it's worryingly that we will see the first few hundred satellites get launched into space this year, and potentially thousands next year, but there's no concrete plans for something as basic as the pricing structure for a subscription or that we don't see any signs of the ground intrastructure like the terminals being mass produced. Really putting the cart before the horse here. I see it as a sign of the Guowang being heavily rushed to compete with Starlink, both for customers and for valuable LEO real estate, that or China really see it's commerical uses as a far secondary goal compared to it's military use and is barely putting in any work into the commerical side of things as a result.
 

by78

General
Some images of the vacuum insulated cryogenic liquid oxygen storage tanks that will be used by Hainan Commercial Spaceport's propellant fueling system. Each tank is 37 meters long, weighs 180 tons, and has an internal volume of 400 cubic meters. They are designed by Beijing Institute of Space Launch Technology and fabricated by Zhejiang Dachuan Equipment Corporation (浙江大川设备有限公司).

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53451298841_021428fb58_o.jpg
53451614814_27d91ca69a_o.jpg
53451713230_47d82c808c_o.jpg
 

by78

General
So plenty have been written about Starlink and the Guowang/G60 potential for military use and they honestly could have been funded purely off that use alone. But can we talk about their actual official use of global satellite internet? I'm doing some reading about and there's basically no details on Guowang/G60 as an actual business, which is not a good sign considering that the network is being launched on mass this year.

I will add my own 2 cents. For starlink, it's mainly for international use, America already has good internet coverage and the country is mainly flat land that's easy to have put up cell towers and fiber networks. In contrast, China still has a large rural population that doesn't have reliable internet access and considering that large parts of the country is remote, rural, mountainous, deserts and has a low population density, satellite internet is probably a much better altenative then trying to get a fibre network into every corner of Tibet for example. This could be what truly gets all of China online. In this regard, China probably has a huge domsetic market for Guowang compared to Starlink. For international markets, Guowang is basically dead in western markets, China might as well not try, or get Huawei-ed. And Starlink is gaining customers at a steady rate, China will want to go for a big push in centeral asia/Africa before the market gets snatched up by Starlink.

So what's the status on the ground terminals? Are they ready to be shipped soon? What size are they compared to Starlink's terminals? How much will they cost? What will be the cost of a monthly Guowang/G60 subscription? Will they mainly be using domestic semiconductors? What are their internet speeds? How many people can the network support? How will international customers sign up for Guowang internet? Starlink needs a ground terminal for now, but there's plans for next generation Starlink and phones to allow for Mb/s satellite internet without need for a ground terminal, is there similar plans for Guowang/G60?

As mentioned above, China still has huge parts of the population and parts of the country that don't have access to reiable internet, will they get subsidized versions of Guowang/G60?-I can think of no better way to combat rural poverty then that, giving every remote mountain village a free Guowang terminal and a free subscription. What about international customers, will China be subsidizing belt and road countries access to Guowang/G60? How will global satellite internet work with the great firewall? How else will China try to lure other countries into the network? What about countries like Russia, which will also benefit greatly from satellite internet, both in their remote far east region and also the war and how might sanctions play into that?

I think it's worryingly that we will see the first few hundred satellites get launched into space this year, and potentially thousands next year, but there's no concrete plans for something as basic as the pricing structure for a subscription or that we don't see any signs of the ground intrastructure like the terminals being mass produced. Really putting the cart before the horse here. I see it as a sign of the Guowang being heavily rushed to compete with Starlink, both for customers and for valuable LEO real estate, that or China really see it's commerical uses as a far secondary goal compared to it's military use and is barely putting in any work into the commerical side of things as a result.

Thank you for the concern trolling.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
So plenty have been written about Starlink and the Guowang/G60 potential for military use and they honestly could have been funded purely off that use alone. But can we talk about their actual official use of global satellite internet? I'm doing some reading about and there's basically no details on Guowang/G60 as an actual business, which is not a good sign considering that the network is being launched on mass this year.

I will add my own 2 cents. For starlink, it's mainly for international use, America already has good internet coverage and the country is mainly flat land that's easy to have put up cell towers and fiber networks. In contrast, China still has a large rural population that doesn't have reliable internet access and considering that large parts of the country is remote, rural, mountainous, deserts and has a low population density, satellite internet is probably a much better altenative then trying to get a fibre network into every corner of Tibet for example. This could be what truly gets all of China online. In this regard, China probably has a huge domsetic market for Guowang compared to Starlink. For international markets, Guowang is basically dead in western markets, China might as well not try, or get Huawei-ed. And Starlink is gaining customers at a steady rate, China will want to go for a big push in centeral asia/Africa before the market gets snatched up by Starlink.

So what's the status on the ground terminals? Are they ready to be shipped soon? What size are they compared to Starlink's terminals? How much will they cost? What will be the cost of a monthly Guowang/G60 subscription? Will they mainly be using domestic semiconductors? What are their internet speeds? How many people can the network support? How will international customers sign up for Guowang internet? Starlink needs a ground terminal for now, but there's plans for next generation Starlink and phones to allow for Mb/s satellite internet without need for a ground terminal, is there similar plans for Guowang/G60?

As mentioned above, China still has huge parts of the population and parts of the country that don't have access to reiable internet, will they get subsidized versions of Guowang/G60?-I can think of no better way to combat rural poverty then that, giving every remote mountain village a free Guowang terminal and a free subscription. What about international customers, will China be subsidizing belt and road countries access to Guowang/G60? How will global satellite internet work with the great firewall? How else will China try to lure other countries into the network? What about countries like Russia, which will also benefit greatly from satellite internet, both in their remote far east region and also the war and how might sanctions play into that?

I think it's worryingly that we will see the first few hundred satellites get launched into space this year, and potentially thousands next year, but there's no concrete plans for something as basic as the pricing structure for a subscription or that we don't see any signs of the ground intrastructure like the terminals being mass produced. Really putting the cart before the horse here. I see it as a sign of the Guowang being heavily rushed to compete with Starlink, both for customers and for valuable LEO real estate, that or China really see it's commerical uses as a far secondary goal compared to it's military use and is barely putting in any work into the commerical side of things as a result.
i don't really see the business case for Starlinks. I think this is a military program masquerading as civilian one.

But for Guowang and G60, I think there might be actual civilian usage case here, since all the OEMs now are looking for access to LEO constellation.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
i don't really see the business case for Starlinks. I think this is a military program masquerading as civilian one.

Starlink have already announced that they are now profitable. As they scale up and bring costs down, profits will increase even further.

If you do a napkin calculation on revenue versus costs, you can see a global LEO satellite internet service could become very profitable.

They're building a separate constellation for the military to be called Starshield.

But for Guowang and G60, I think there might be actual civilian usage case here, since all the OEMs now are looking for access to LEO constellation.

And if there is a civilian use case for Guowang and G60, there is also one for Starlink.
 
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