China's Space Program News Thread

[taxiya]

Oh well guess we won't be seeing a Saturn class booster land anytime soon, Why isn't the gov supporting the private companies more? They are clearly more nimble and efficient

CZ-9 is evisioned to be ready somewhere around 2030, only after that would a re-usable variant to be seen if there is a plan for it. But we know that launch number of this size is very low, there may be no financial reason to do it even the tech allows. A question is to far away.

The government opening their launch site (with charge) to them is already a supporting action. After all one must remember "private" business should not take government budget for free, that includes research outcome paid by budget. That is illegal. So government's support can only be by regulations to open the door, but must not more than that.

This would sound bit rough, but the fact is that China is a People's republic, not just a republic. The government's existence is not to enrich some individuals using money of the population regardless how great the individuals do unless they enrich the whole nation.

They are nimble for their smaller size, but efficiency can only be proven by their product vs. their cost and time, that won't be proven until they have demonstrated, but not yet.

Besides, it is not quite a black and white picture of "private". These companies have complicated share holder structures, there could be a sizable portion of them being owned by various state agencies. I recognized that Beihang investment in one of the companies. Beihang is the famous university which is fully state owned.

 

[taxiya]

It may be nitpicking but why is that the english initials are bigger than the chinese ones?

First of all, I don't see any reason for the question at all.

Secondly, if there is a difference, it could be because the upper stage where the Chinese characters are painted are 2.25m in diameter. The first stage where CZ-8 is painted is 3.35m. The texts have to be in the right size for the fuselage.

Besides, the upper stage is much higher and the photo is taken close, so there is a lot of perspective effect "things further looks smaller".

And last, even if there is a difference, it means nothing, the "English" letters CZ-8 are not English, it is Pinying in Latin letters still Chinese language. It would be a valid question if it is painted "LM-8" as in Long March.

 

[eprash]

CZ-9 is evisioned to be ready somewhere around 2030, only after that would a re-usable variant to be seen if there is a plan for it. But we know that launch number of this size is very low, there may be no financial reason to do it even the tech allows. A question is to far away.

The government opening their launch site (with charge) to them is already a supporting action. After all one must remember "private" business should not take government budget for free, that includes research outcome paid by budget. That is illegal. So government's support can only be by regulations to open the door, but must not more than that.

This would sound bit rough, but the fact is that China is a People's republic, not just a republic. The government's existence is not to enrich some individuals using money of the population regardless how great the individuals do unless they enrich the whole nation.

They are nimble for their smaller size, but efficiency can only be proven by their product vs. their cost and time, that won't be proven until they have demonstrated, but not yet.

Besides, it is not quite a black and white picture of "private". These companies have complicated share holder structures, there could be a sizable portion of them being owned by various state agencies. I recognized that Beihang investment in one of the companies. Beihang is the famous university which is fully state owned.

2030 is just too late I hope it's a deadline not a projected initial launch date, Starship would be up and running by that time even the Chinese spaceplane would be ready and we are not even considering the blue Armstrong rockets

Interesting times are ahead that's for sure

 

[gelgoog]

Even if Starship gets into service it is unknown if it will be economically viable.
SpaceX can even launch large LEO constellations like Starlink with regular Falcon 9 launches.

I am rather skeptical about Blue Origin. It was founded before SpaceX with a lot more cash put into it.
It is after all owned by the world's richest man (Jeff Bezos). But the results Blue Origin has attained are rather miserable vs SpaceX.
The Armstrong rocket requires huge composite structures with the current design. These are cured within an autoclave.
Not only is that expensive like heck, there is a poor track record of using composites with deeply cryogenic fuels.
Of the two designs I think Starship has a lot more potential for getting put into service even if it isn't economical.

Given the commonality of the "921" rocket with existing Chinese rockets I think it will be "quickly" put into service.
Although speed isn't exactly the name of the game with the Chinese space program. So it may take 5 years.
I don't think it will be an issue if, say, China only gets their equivalent rocket a decade after Starship comes out.
In the timescales we are talking about for space exploration it doesn't make that much of a difference.
Also being a follower allows to avoid expensive forays into avenues which don't make through into practice.

Just consider that the typical Mars launch window occurs every 2 years. That's when Mars is closest to Earth.
Any Mars mission will be planned around that. So there will be a flurry of activity in those launch windows and no activity in between.
Moon mission profiles are a lot easier in comparison.

 

[OppositeDay]

Even if Starship gets into service it is unknown if it will be economically viable.
SpaceX can even launch large LEO constellations like Starlink with regular Falcon 9 launches.

I am rather skeptical about Blue Origin. It was founded before SpaceX with a lot more cash put into it.
It is after all owned by the world's richest man (Jeff Bezos). But the results Blue Origin has attained are rather miserable vs SpaceX.
The Armstrong rocket requires huge composite structures with the current design. These are cured within an autoclave.
Not only is that expensive like heck, there is a poor track record of using composites with deeply cryogenic fuels.
Of the two designs I think Starship has a lot more potential for getting put into service even if it isn't economical.

Given the commonality of the "921" rocket with existing Chinese rockets I think it will be "quickly" put into service.
Although speed isn't exactly the name of the game with the Chinese space program. So it may take 5 years.
I don't think it will be an issue if, say, China only gets their equivalent rocket a decade after Starship comes out.
In the timescales we are talking about for space exploration it doesn't make that much of a difference.
Also being a follower allows to avoid expensive forays into avenues which don't make through into practice.

Just consider that the typical Mars launch window occurs every 2 years. That's when Mars is closest to Earth.
Any Mars mission will be planned around that. So there will be a flurry of activity in those launch windows and no activity in between.
Moon mission profiles are a lot easier in comparison.

Yes a fast follower strategy makes a lot of sense for space industry.

 

[AndrewS]

Yes a fast follower strategy makes a lot of sense for space industry.

True.

But we're not seeing enough fast following from the Chinese space industry in terms of low cost reusable rockets

 

[kentchang]

CZ-9 sized launchers may have a brighter future than people think. Orbital Solar Power Stations. 2040's? May even making a decent profit with a mature carbon trading market.

 

[Deino]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328621047512506370

 

[anzha]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328621047512506370

and a bit more info:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[by78]

Deep space communications network. This is an all-important piece of infrastructure for missions to the Moon and Mars and far beyond. If you are truly serious about deep space exploration, you have to have it.