China's Space Program News Thread

[delft]

No doubt China is prepared to sign another cooperation agreement with ESA, and probably as a more senior partner. ESA will not even dare to think of repeating its blunder and China is gracious.

 

[jackliu]

No doubt China is prepared to sign another cooperation agreement with ESA, and probably as a more senior partner. ESA will not even dare to think of repeating its blunder and China is gracious.

That just shows you man, never expect anyone to help you out if you are weak, if you want respect, work on strengthen yourself, don't blame others.

 

[AssassinsMace]

The only thing IMO that the ESA miscalculated was China's ability to have their own system up and going especially before Galileo. Eveything else was an intentional insult. Did the Europeans invite China knowing that they would screw with them in the end? That's the only one I would have a question. European governments change as easily as their opinions. So this could've been a case where the people who invited China were not the same as the ones that screwed with China.

Supposedly the last nail in the coffin was other countries that hadn't invested like Japan got for free what China was excluded from or had to pay for. If China didn't send its Shenzhou manned-missions or clearly having the building blocks of a space station being established, the Europeans would still be arrogant with China. The only reason the ESA wants "cooperation" is the fact China is doing it without them. The article poses the question itself about where do the Europeans want to be regarding space? Right now they need the US and Russia for a lot when it comes to space who happen to have their own financial question about their future in space. This call for cooperation is not opening their arms to the Chinese. It's all about hedging their bets. That's why China shouldn't be playing down for their comfort in such fields. Of course any advancement even in non-military fields will be seen as a threat by the US and that's why China shouldn't bother to comfort them from their insecurities.

And does anyone think the US wasn't behind the scenes pushing for China's ouster from Galileo too? I can remember reading about US concerns over then China's potential inclusion. They're going to see threat from anything where they are not in control. It's a contradiction for China wanting to develop to be a self-sustaining nation and needing to comfort those that want commanding control over literally everything. Being seen as a threat is unavoidable. I'll give this to the Europeans... they might actually recognize China has the ability to go beyond what the US thinks is impossible. And that's a low bar to start with. And none of this is possible without China displaying they could do it.

 

[jackliu]

The only thing IMO that the ESA miscalculated was China's ability to have their own system up and going especially before Galileo. Eveything else was an intentional insult. Did the Europeans invite China knowing that they would screw with them in the end? That's the only one I would have a question. European governments change as easily as their opinions. So this could've been a case where the people who invited China were not the same as the ones that screwed with China.

Supposedly the last nail in the coffin was other countries that hadn't invested like Japan got for free what China was excluded from or had to pay for. If China didn't send its Shenzhou manned-missions or clearly having the building blocks of a space station being established, the Europeans would still be arrogant with China. The only reason the ESA wants "cooperation" is the fact China is doing it without them. The article poses the question itself about where do the Europeans want to be regarding space? Right now they need the US and Russia for a lot when it comes to space who happen to have their own financial question about their future in space. This call for cooperation is not opening their arms to the Chinese. It's all about hedging their bets. That's why China shouldn't be playing down for their comfort in such fields. Of course any advancement even in non-military fields will be seen as a threat by the US and that's why China shouldn't bother to comfort them from their insecurities.

And does anyone think the US wasn't behind the scenes pushing for China's ouster from Galileo too? I can remember reading about US concerns over then China's potential inclusion. They're going to see threat from anything where they are not in control. It's a contradiction for China wanting to develop to be a self-sustaining nation and needing to comfort those that want commanding control over literally everything. Being seen as a threat is unavoidable. I'll give this to the Europeans... they might actually recognize China has the ability to go beyond what the US thinks is impossible. And that's a low bar to start with. And none of this is possible without China displaying they could do it.

Still, China should work with Europeans as much as possible, but this time they should dictate the terms, because China should hedge it's bet against US.

As strong as China is getting, a hostile Europe and US will be very hard for China to handle. And judging from that article, China is just doing that. I would love to see China and ESA sending probes exploring the solar system together.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Still, China should work with Europeans as much as possible, but this time they should dictate the terms, because China should hedge it's bet against US.

As strong as China is getting, a hostile Europe and US will be very hard for China to handle. And judging from that article, China is just doing that. I would love to see China and ESA sending probes exploring the solar system together.

I'm not against cooperation. I'm against China begging for it and especially not getting anything out of it. That's what happens when China puts itself into the position it does where it makes the West thinks China needs them more. It's just like a friend of mine who knows this woman who goes to work everyday on the metro train. There's a man she sees there at the station who flirts and flatters her and wants to date her. He was very interested. This went on for a long time. Problem was she had no interest in him and didn't tell him. So one day it just stopped. No more flirting, no more begging for a date. She was actually upset he wasn't begging for her attention anymore. Is China smart enough to finally understand that like this guy that he wasn't going to get what he wanted so don't bother anymore? If the ESA wants cooperation now, it isn't because China's begging paid-off. It was because China has shown they can do it without them. And if China wants cooperation with the US, China is going to have to do what they haven't done instead of doing only what they do as a measure of success. If you look up to the US as a measure then follow with their mentality. "If you have nothing worthy to offer, then I don't need you."

 

[jackliu]

I'm not against cooperation. I'm against China begging for it and especially not getting anything out of it. That's what happens when China puts itself into the position it does where it makes the West thinks China needs them more. It's just like a friend of mine who knows this woman who goes to work everyday on the metro train. There's a man she sees there at the station who flirts and flatters her and wants to date her. He was very interested. This went on for a long time. Problem was she had no interest in him and didn't tell him. So one day it just stopped. No more flirting, no more begging for a date. She was actually upset he wasn't begging for her attention anymore. Is China smart enough to finally understand that like this guy that he wasn't going to get what he wanted so don't bother anymore? If the ESA wants cooperation now, it isn't because China's begging paid-off. It was because China has shown they can do it without them. And if China wants cooperation with the US, China is going to have to do what they haven't done instead of doing only what they do as a measure of success. If you look up to the US as a measure then follow with their mentality. "If you have nothing worthy to offer, they I don't need you."

All true, but I don't blame Europe and US for thinking this way, after all, there is not a living person on earth remember when was the last time non-white people were taking the leading position in the world. It will take time for them to adjust to the new reality, so if in the process they insulted China intentionally or unintentionally don't take it as personal insult. Only by strengthen yourself you can truly gain respect from others. I guess this is what China means by peaceful rise.

 

[no_name]

In fact I think this kind of mentality is expected and probably can't be avoided during ascent of a competitor.
Remember the attitudes of officials in Qing court when they first came into contact with the west?

 

[escobar]

A report showing CE-3 prototype testing (Lander + Rover) and the 1:1 scale simulation halls

[video=youtube;Mv3EQebE8Ak]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv3EQebE8Ak[/video]

 

[escobar]

For the rover's descent , a pivoting support (inred) must be maneuvered by actuators, causing the lowering of rails supporting the rover.

 

[jackliu]

In fact I think this kind of mentality is expected and probably can't be avoided during ascent of a competitor.
Remember the attitudes of officials in Qing court when they first came into contact with the west?

Oh yeah, United State government sometime STRONGLY remind me of Qing dynasty. Glad to see I am not the only one see the similarity.