This is what you guys really think?
China's SCS Strategy Thread
- Thread starter lilzz
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This is what you guys really think?
Re # 7,309. Indeed. The US populace are held in a mushroom club. Keep them in the dark and feed them with lots of bullshit. As an example, do they know the meglev trains in China from Shanghai to Guangzhou travel at a speed of 600 kph [kilometre per hour]? Do they know the China Space Station- CSS is commissioned by 2022 and that the ISS will be falling out of the skies?
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It's a severe underestimation actually.
AWACS+fighter is a complete package on their own and doesn't need shore based missiles as backup. In addition if AWAC can't see a surface target the surface target can't see it either, the radar horizon is two way.
However just seeing the AWAC isn't enough for a surface target. When the AWAC can see the surface target, the surface target might only see the AWAC and not the 24 plane strike package flying low below the radar horizon that the AWAC is feeding data to.
Hello all, been reading for a little while but only recently made an account to ask a question regarding the SCS.
Apologies if it's been answered earlier in this thread already, but has the Chinese government in say the last 10 years or so made any formal clarification on their 9 dash line claim, and whether they officially consider all of the SCS within it sovereign Chinese maritime territory? Or have they sort of kept it "ambiguous," so to speak, referring to historical claims from the days of ROC and even earlier during the imperial period?
I will agree with most users on this forum that the US is without a doubt the instigator and the aggressor in the region and that it is an absolute must for China to use their military facilities in the SCS to deter any potential blockade by the US navy. I also understand China has always had a historical presence in the SCS, however, I feel that to claim all of the 9 dash line as maritime territory (if that is indeed the official position of the PRC) seems.....counter productive. I think that position only serves to antagonise the ASEAN nations and give fodder for sinophobic propaganda to paint China as an imperialist expansionist bully, without actually giving any concrete benefits. I reckon China would be better off if they officially made a statement that accepted the SCS as international waters, but still obviously maintain the military facilities. Perhaps also start pointing out Vietnam and the Philippines have their own military installations in the SCS, so that people start realising it's truly disputed territories where China and ASEAN need to resolve on their own, without interference from outside powers (USA). Of course the code of conduct is a good start.
This would really cut the legs out from the anti-China narrative, and I know it all too well as I'm unfortunately living in Australia, where the mainstream opinion is that China is wants to militarily conquer everything and everyone from SE Asia to Darwin.
Happy to be informed if I've gotten anything wrong about China's official position, and happy to hear different perspectives on whether dropping the official maritime claim of SCS is a practically a good thing to do or not.
Apologies if it's been answered earlier in this thread already, but has the Chinese government in say the last 10 years or so made any formal clarification on their 9 dash line claim, and whether they officially consider all of the SCS within it sovereign Chinese maritime territory? Or have they sort of kept it "ambiguous," so to speak, referring to historical claims from the days of ROC and even earlier during the imperial period?
I will agree with most users on this forum that the US is without a doubt the instigator and the aggressor in the region and that it is an absolute must for China to use their military facilities in the SCS to deter any potential blockade by the US navy. I also understand China has always had a historical presence in the SCS, however, I feel that to claim all of the 9 dash line as maritime territory (if that is indeed the official position of the PRC) seems.....counter productive. I think that position only serves to antagonise the ASEAN nations and give fodder for sinophobic propaganda to paint China as an imperialist expansionist bully, without actually giving any concrete benefits. I reckon China would be better off if they officially made a statement that accepted the SCS as international waters, but still obviously maintain the military facilities. Perhaps also start pointing out Vietnam and the Philippines have their own military installations in the SCS, so that people start realising it's truly disputed territories where China and ASEAN need to resolve on their own, without interference from outside powers (USA). Of course the code of conduct is a good start.
This would really cut the legs out from the anti-China narrative, and I know it all too well as I'm unfortunately living in Australia, where the mainstream opinion is that China is wants to militarily conquer everything and everyone from SE Asia to Darwin.
Happy to be informed if I've gotten anything wrong about China's official position, and happy to hear different perspectives on whether dropping the official maritime claim of SCS is a practically a good thing to do or not.
Dropping the claim at this point would be seen across the world as a sign of weakness and forecasts of an imminent CCP collapse. The wolves would all gather and put even more pressure on China. The only way China drops the claim at this point is if foreign troops are occupying Beijing.
ASEAN has always been Sinophobic(Indonesia massacres of Chinese, Malaysia forming Singapore because they didn't want to live with so many Chinese, Vietnam beating it into their kids' heads that China has tried to conquer Vietnam for thousands of years) even before SCS disputes when China was weak. They're not going to stop being Sinophobic by Beijing showing weakness.
There is no cutting of legs for anti-China propaganda because you can make anything look negative if you control the narrative. English is the international language and almost every child now in ASEAN learns English and surfs Facebook. China is unable to compete with America in this sphere no matter what.
I think there's a few reasons China hasn't shown any wiggle room on this one.
1. If China doesn't claim the EEZ she can't really claim the reefs, which would leave her in the worse diplomatic position of saying "Yes, we don't have any claim on these reefs, but we're building them into islands and putting our assets on them anyway." which is *really* bad optics to maintaining an line that you have a legitimate claim to them.*
2. Though an EEZ doesn't grant the right to block foreign military vessels performing exercises, one thing is does grant is rights over the seabed. If China gives up it's EEZ claim and other countries don't, this would legally prevent the PLAN from undertaking detailed mapping of the seabed for the benefit of submarine patrols, and possibly also her ability to install seabed mounted submarine monitoring systems. China's complex dispute with Japan over Parece Vela / Okinotorishima is related to precisely this, as Japan has blocked Chinese seabed mapping within the EEZ claim based on Parece Vela. Unsurprisingly, China has been reluctant to pursue that case with any real enthusiasm, as she knows full well if it was successful then it'd make her stance in the SCC extremely precarious.
3. China desperately wants to reduce her dependence on imported energy, which the SCC could potentially help with. Having those waters under foreign sovereignty would rule that out, or at least greatly reduce the degree of control China has over them.
4. Never underestimate pride. There's a lot of deep seated memories of the unequal treaties, and a strong urge to show the west that China won't be bullied. The more the western countries pile onto China about the SCC issue, the more she's going to double down. It's human nature.
* There is a sort-of precedent in that Australia claims the Torres Strait Islands, but doesn't claim any territorial waters in the Torres Strait, in order to maintain it's international status. However, this the big difference is that Australia already had a populated, civilian presence on those islands when she rescinded her claim to the territorial waters, and there was no ambiguity about the status of the islands as natural features, so I don't think there's any realistic way China could use this to square the circle with her neighbours. Furthermore, no one disputed Australia's claim to to the islands (PNG was threatening too, at the time of it's independence, which was avoided by the territorial water compromise, so it never came to anything).
doubt the top brass in US will care, mainly because if conflict broke out china doesn't have logistic/way to push into Hawaiian water without have complete control over 1st and 2nd island chain, especially given Japan/guam is there. So going through Hawaiian water is more of symbolic.
So it begins @Bellum_Romanum bro Isko Moreno, Pacquiao, Robredo, Lacson had declared their intention to run for the Presidency but the one that everybody is waiting for is Bong Bong Marcos. We will see a lot of propaganda and negative news about the Marcos martial law years of abuse and cruelty. It is a dark chapter in our democracy but the sin of the father cannot be inherited by the son. The aftermath of 1986 EDSA revolution is much darker with the return of the Oligarchy. the rent seekers!!! Now we wait for his running mate for VP, if my calculation is correct we will see Sarah Duterte announcing her intention to run and President Duterte making way for her and announces his withdrawal to run as VP. Coalescing their party together and endorsing them.
6 days ago — THE Partido Federal ng Pilipinas (PFP) has officially endorsed former senator Ferdinand "Bongbong" Marcos Jr. as its presidential candidate in ...
6 days ago — THE Partido Federal ng Pilipinas (PFP) has officially endorsed former senator Ferdinand "Bongbong" Marcos Jr. as its presidential candidate in ...