China's SCS Strategy Thread

Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
May 21, 2019
Jura said:
now I read
China’s coastguard ‘can expect military treatment’ in South China Sea
  • American admiral issues warning as Beijing sends more non-naval vessels into troubled waters to asset claims
[Published and Updated times are apparently swapped]

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partly related is
Testing the waters: China’s maritime militia challenges foreign forces at sea
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China’s so-called maritime militia is believed to be behind
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against an Australian naval helicopter over the South China Sea, soon after a U.S. admiral warned that the paramilitary force could be treated as combatants.

A report in the Australian Broadcasting Corporation on May 29, quoting Australian Defence Department sources, said that the crew of a Royal Australian Navy helicopter was targeted by lasers from nearby fishing vessels during a night flight.

The helicopter landed safely on its ship following the attack, where crew members were given a medical checkup and cleared of any injury. The helicopter was flying from an Australian naval ship taking part in a regional engagement mission.

The report did not say if the fishing vessel that targeted the helicopter with lasers was Chinese-flagged, although that country has the largest such fleet in the region by far.

However, some believe that many of these vessels are not engaged in fishing activities, but in fact belong to the maritime militia, a paramilitary force engaged in “patrol, surveillance, resupply, and other missions to bolster China’s presence in contested waters in the South and East China Seas,” according to a report by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington-based think tank.

What makes up the maritime militia?

According to Andrew Erickson, a professor of strategy at the U.S. Naval War College’s China Maritime Studies Institute, China’s maritime militia is a component of China’s armed forces and is employed in so-called gray zone operations, or “low-intensity maritime rights protection struggles,” at a level designed to frustrate effective response by the other parties involved.

Erickson asserts that China has used the militia to advance its disputed sovereignty claims in international sea incidents throughout the South and East China seas. For its part, the CSIS think tank believes “some of the best-trained and best-equipped members engage in overt paramilitary activities such as the harassment of foreign vessels operating near Chinese-held islets or dangerous standoffs with vessels from neighboring states,” such as an incident in 2014 when China deployed an oil rig in waters claimed by Vietnam.

Writing on his personal website, Erickson said the units engaged in such incidents incorporate marine industry workers, such as fishermen, directly into China’s military. Though they retain their day jobs, they can go through training as militia members by China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy and can be activated on demand.

Echoing this, the Pentagon’s 2019 China Military Power Report called the militia “a subset of China’s national militia, an armed reserve force of civilians available for mobilization.” The report added that the force “plays a major role in coercive activities to achieve China’s political goals without fighting.”

China has been developing more professionalized, militarized, well-paid full-time units including military recruits, and it is crewing 84 purpose-built vessels with mast-mounted water cannons for spraying and with reinforced steel hulls for ramming. Typical of these vessels are what the CSIS report calls the “Yue Tai Yu fleet” — nine 62.8-meter trawlers built by Guangxin Shipbuilding & Heavy Industry in 2017.

CSIS used these vessels’ automatic identification systems to track them on the intermittent occasions they broadcast their positions. The think tank determined that after leaving the shipyard that built them, the trawlers traveled to the coastal port of Shadi in Guangdong province and spent the next year traveling back and forth between this home port and the disputed chain of Spratly Islands.

While there, the vessels made lengthy stays at Subi and Mischief reefs, and they visited China’s Gaven, Johnson and hughes Reefs, all of which are part of China’s “Great Wall of Sand,” where islands have been reclaimed from the sea, and on which the country has built extensive military facilities.

However, the strongest evidence that those trawlers are part of the maritime militia status stems from the substantial amount of time they spent loitering in the waters around the Philippine-occupied Thitu and Loaita islands, according to CSIS. High-resolution satellite imagery of the vessels also suggests they spend little, if any time, fishing.

A warning

China doesn’t attempt to hide the existence of the maritime militia; the country acknowledges it is part of the state security apparatus.

In fact, Adm. John Richardson, the outgoing U.S. Navy chief of naval operations, in a meeting with his Chinese counterpart, Vice Adm. Shen Jinlong, warned that he is aware China uses non-military ships to help Beijing stake its claims in the disputed South China Sea.

Richardson also said during the meeting in January that the U.S. will respond to aggressive acts by those ships the same way it has with ships the People’s Liberation Army Navy, according to an interview with Britain’s Financial Times newspaper.

However, the officer did not specify what those measures will be. And given that hundreds of maritime militia boats swarmed the waters around the Philippine-held Thitu Island, China appears to have been undeterred by the warning.
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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
supposedly today,
Shanahan to Call Out China over South China Sea
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U.S. Acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan said he will call out China in a speech Saturday over its
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and broader use of coercion to advance its national interests.

He said his broader message to the Shangri-La Dialogue security conference will emphasize what the U.S. has done to expand its commitment to the Indo-Pacific region, against the backdrop of China's growing influence and massive military buildup.

Speaking to reporters just before he stepped into a meeting Friday with Chinese Defense Minister Wei Fenghe, Shanahan said he wants to foster a better military relationship with Beijing, but can't ignore the communist giant's military development on the manmade outposts.

"They argue that it's defensive, it looks like it's a bit overkill," said Shanahan. "Surface-to-air missiles, long runways, I mean, seems excessive."

His remarks underscore America's frayed relations with China, as the Trump administration wages a trade war with Beijing, imposes sanctions on Chinese tech giant Huawei and approves a weapons sale to Taiwan, the self-ruled island the Communist mainland claims as its own territory. And they reflect America's new national defense strategy that declared great power competition with China and Russia as the nation's top priorities.

Shanahan's speech on Saturday — his first major address on the international stage — will set the tone for U.S. military cooperation and influence in the Indo-Pacific. And listening closely will be nervous allies and partners in the region who are worried about the economic impact of the U.S.-China trade dispute and the political blowback of America's complaints about Beijing's rapid progress in hypersonic weapons, nuclear technology and space launches.

He also will likely face fierce questions from Chinese leaders in the audience, as many U.S. defense chiefs have seen during this annual forum. On Friday, Chinese defense ministry spokesman Wu Qian was both conciliatory and challenging.

Speaking to reporters after Wei's meeting with Shanahan, Wu noted that the U.S. has recently "had a series of negative words and deeds" on Taiwan issues.

"On the issue of safeguarding national sovereignty and territorial integrity, the U.S. should not underestimate the determination of the Chinese military, will or ability," he said.

But he also said Shanahan and Wei found room for agreement on the need for denuclearization of the Korean peninsula and efforts to improve communication between the U.S. and China.

In a statement after the meeting,
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Lt. Col. Joe Buccino, a spokesman for Shanahan, said the 20-minute session was "constructive and productive." He said the two men discussed "ways to build military-to-military relations that reduce the risk of misunderstanding and miscalculation between our nations."

For years, American defense secretaries have used the Shangri-La conference's podium to condemn China for its militarization of outposts in contested areas of the South China Sea and for conducting cyber espionage against U.S. technology programs. But they have balanced their criticism with calls for cooperation, stability and a rules-based order in the region.

Shanahan told reporters Friday that the U.S. needs to do a better job describing its level of commitment to the region, including military exercises, training and other activities.

"I do think we have to up our game on talking about interactions," he said, adding that the U.S. will have a larger presence in the region for various military exercises. "Our responsibility is to show them what we're actually doing."
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B

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Brumby said:
I don't have any problem with opposing views. Isn't it part of the political discussions you were supporting that should be opened up.

What you described as assumptions doesn't change the fact that there was a ruling even if China is disputing. Likewise China's claim that it has sovereignty is disputed just as China is disputing the ruling. The problem is there is a reluctance (even denial) to accept that there is a dispute and the sovereignty issue is unresolved. .
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It is not about opposing views, but about being factually correct or incorrect.

The fact is that there was no ruling, a ruling is an authoritive statement made by a judge that has jurisdiction on a certain case.

For the arbitration court to have authority, both parties must agree to use it, which did not happen. Also, a consultative statement from a court is never the same thing as ruling, as a ruling is legally binding while a consultative statement is not.

No one is denying there’s a dispute, otherwise there wouldn’t be bilateral negotiations.

Stop regurgitating falsehoods. I don’t mind if you have your own radical ideas on the SCS dispute. That’s completely ok, but don’t lie about it. This ends up confusing new people and lurkers.
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Thursday at 9:43 PM
Jura said:
Tuesday at 9:34 PM
and now I read in Facebook
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"China rejected claims that it targeted Australian helicopter pilots with lasers in the South China Sea, calling on Australia to “reflect on itself.”

Earlier this month, an Australian named Euan Graham claimed that their military helicopter pilots were hit by lasers coming from Chinese fishing vessels in the South China Sea.

During that time, Graham was aboard HMAS Canberra, a helicopter landing dock and flagship of the Royal Australian Navy, which was on a three-month mission in the South China Sea and the Indian Ocean.

China’s Defense Ministry Spokesman Wu Qian has rebutted the accusations on Thursday at a monthly briefing, saying the report was “not consistent with the facts,” and Australia should “reflect on itself” before pointing the blame at others.

Chinese fishermen have the right to work in their own waters and sail through high seas, Wu added."
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related:
China denies targeting Australia with lasers in South China Sea
China has responded to claims it used lasers on Australia helicopter pilots in the South China Sea. And had a message for Australia. May 30, 2019
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A report that Australian navy helicopter pilots were targeted with lasers apparently coming from Chinese fishing boats was “not consistent with the facts,” China’s defence ministry says.

Spokesman Wu Qian told reporters at a monthly briefing that Australia should “reflect on itself” before pointing the blame at others.

“According to my knowledge, what you have said is not consistent with the facts,” Mr Wu said.

Scholar Euan Graham, who was on-board the Royal Australian Navy flagship HMAS Canberra on a voyage from Vietnam to Singapore, wrote that the Tiger attack helicopter pilots were hit by lasers while exercising in South China Sea waters claimed by China earlier in May, “temporarily grounding them for precautionary medical reasons.”

China maintains a robust maritime militia in the South China Sea composed of fishing vessels equipped to carry out missions just short of combat.

China claims the strategic waterway virtually in its entirety and is sensitive to all foreign naval action in the area, especially by the US and allies such as Australia.

Similar incidents involving lasers and the Chinese military have also been reported as far away as Djibouti, where the US and China have bases.

Last year, the US complained to China after lasers were directed at aircraft in the Horn of Africa nation that resulted in minor injuries to two American pilots.

China denied that its forces targeted the US military aircraft. Graham wrote that bridge-to-bridge communications with the Chinese during the voyage were courteous, but that the Chinese requested the Australian warships to notify them in advance of any corrections to their course, something the Australian navy was “not about to concede while exercising its high-seas freedoms”.

He wrote that the constant presence of Chinese vessels shadowing foreign ships appeared to indicate that the Chinese fleet had grown large enough to allow it to have vessels lying in wait for such orders.
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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Today at 8:07 AM
Jura said:
supposedly today,
Shanahan to Call Out China over South China Sea
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and only now read about this 'prelude':
China, U.S. defence chiefs hold talks at Asia security summit

Updated a day ago
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Chinese Defence Minister Wei Fenghe and acting U.S. Defence Secretary Patrick Shanahan held talks on Friday at an Asia security summit in Singapore, a meeting the Pentagon said was “constructive and productive,” amid heightened tensions between the two countries over trade and security.

The meeting comes even as Shanahan told reporters on Friday that Chinese militarization of the South China was “excessive” and that he would be calling out such Chinese actions in a speech on Saturday.

The United States and China, locked in an escalating trade war, are also at odds over a series of strategic issues, from the disputed South China Sea to democratic Taiwan, claimed by China as its sacred territory, to be taken by force if needed.

Lieutenant Colonel Joe Buccino, a Pentagon spokesman, said Shanahan found their 20-minute meeting to be “constructive and productive”.

“The two leaders discussed ways to build military-to-military relations that reduce the risk of misunderstanding and miscalculation between our nations,” Buccino said.

He added that Shanahan discussed how the two militaries could better cooperate to enforce North Korea sanctions.

“Secretary Shanahan hopes to build on this evening’s discussion with future engagements,” Buccino said.

Prior to the meeting, Shanahan stuck an optimistic tone and told reporters that the relationship between the two militaries had “a lot of potential”.

He said he had several proposals to improve relations with Beijing that he would discuss with Wei.

CALL OUT CHINESE BEHAVIOUR
Before his meeting with Wei, Shanahan - who on his first day in his role in January said the U.S. military would focus on “China, China, China” - said he would use a speech on Saturday to call out China specifically.

“This part might be viewed as spicy kind of call out good behaviours, bad behaviours and there’s parts of this where I think it’s appropriate not to ignore,” Shanahan said, adding that China’s military actions in the South China Sea had been excessive.

“They argue that it is defensive, it looks like it’s a bit overkill, surface to air missiles, long runways... it seems excessive,” Shanahan said.

China and the United States have repeatedly traded barbs over what Washington says is Beijing’s militarization of the South China Sea by building military installations on artificial islands and reefs.

China claims almost all of the strategic waterway and blames the United States and its allies for escalating tensions by carrying out naval operations in the region.
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can't resist to say I would've preferred if people INSTEAD OF BICKERING had posted what's actually happening in the region
 
D

Dolcevita

Major
Jura said:
Today at 8:07 AM
and only now read about this 'prelude':
China, U.S. defence chiefs hold talks at Asia security summit

Updated a day ago
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can't resist to say I would've preferred if people INSTEAD OF BICKERING had posted what's actually happening in the region
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Better yet. I would've preferred if people stop intentionally posting factually false news and statements. You can go to internet MSM for that. Do a little vetting and research and avoid spreading falsehood before posting to help maintain the integrity of this forum.

For the record, I am not talking specifically about the news item above.
 
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Z

zgx09t

Junior Member
Registered Member
Jura said:
can't resist to say I would've preferred if people INSTEAD OF BICKERING had posted what's actually happening in the region
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That's wholesale mischaracterization of thoughtful intelligent discussion and counterpoints in the thread. Members here took time and effort to lay out their point of view. Copy and paste doesn't require neither intelligence, nor thought. Certainly not much time and effort. It just creates a landscape of clutter.
 
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