China's SCS Strategy Thread

[delft]

Freedom of navigation means the freedom of merchants ships to go their lawful way without interference. The only interference experienced in the SCS area is by pirates. The FONOP action by USN are entire irrelevant to the freedom of navigation and hardly contribute to safety of merchant ships. So it is either to intimidate countries in the area or to satisfy ignorant Americans or both. Neither is a honourable purpose.
The increased presence of Chinese aircraft in the area to be expected in the near future will hinder the pirates.

 

[Jura The idiot]

...
The increased presence of Chinese aircraft in the area to be expected in the near future will hinder the pirates.

LOLOL it's because of Pirates? I thought it's to protect Turtles:

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2016-10-06 09:31 | Xinhua | Editor: Feng Shuang

...

or maybe not?

 

[delft]

LOLOL it's because of Pirates? I thought it's to protect Turtles:
or maybe not?

Piracy has been a considerable problem both East and West of Singapore for the last forty or so years, as it has been earlier, and so of concern to China. An entirely legitimate reason to base Coast Guard vessels on the new islands.

 

[Jura The idiot]

Piracy has been a considerable problem both East and West of Singapore for the last forty or so years, as it has been earlier, and so of concern to China. An entirely legitimate reason to base Coast Guard vessels on the new islands.

hold it here, right above I reacted to

...
The increased presence of Chinese aircraft in the area to be expected in the near future will hinder the pirates.

huh?
turtles protection at the end? LOL

 

[Blackstone]

Freedom of navigation means the freedom of merchants ships to go their lawful way without interference. The only interference experienced in the SCS area is by pirates. The FONOP action by USN are entire irrelevant to the freedom of navigation and hardly contribute to safety of merchant ships. So it is either to intimidate countries in the area or to satisfy ignorant Americans or both. Neither is a honourable purpose.
The increased presence of Chinese aircraft in the area to be expected in the near future will hinder the pirates.

That's the view of China, India, and a sizable minority of nations, and there are some merits to it. However, most of the world currently align with US view on FONs, including Russia. Does that mean it's the last word? Of course not. But, it does mean until a new consensus is reached, status quo reigns.

There are winners and losers in changing the status quo, because vested interests wouldn't easily give up power. Nevertheless, the peaceful accommodation of China that results in maintaining world order is in everyone's interests, including the US. It requires treating China as an equal, and it's clear US isn't quite ready to do that, yet. Which means events in Asia will be more tense and messy for everyone, until the Beltway mandarins accommodates the Zhongnanhai mandarins. And that's the real world we live in.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Freedom of navigation means the freedom of merchants ships to go their lawful way without interference. The only interference experienced in the SCS area is by pirates. The FONOP action by USN are entire irrelevant to the freedom of navigation and hardly contribute to safety of merchant ships. So it is either to intimidate countries in the area or to satisfy ignorant Americans or both. Neither is a honourable purpose.
The increased presence of Chinese aircraft in the area to be expected in the near future will hinder the pirates.

Now Master Delft, I realize Barack Hussein, and Hillary Rodham are ignorant Americans, and that their "Arab Spring" has helped to create the horrible mess that you brilliant European's are now having to live with! "cough!, cough! ...........I'm even willing to concede that if we are "STOOPID" enough to elect HRC, we are likely going to HELL IN A HANDBASKET, actually we are already in a literal hell thanks to Barack Hussein Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton, and their team of "political hacks", with all their "stoopid" emails!

but, with China's rapid expansion into the SCS, and taking over reefs and shoals that others, also have just as great a historical interest, and pretending to be "out-raged" at the US, because we also respect those other peoples historical interest and believe that it is all our best interest to "buffer" that encroachment with FON excercises, seems like a very benign action IMHO.

US challenges any nation that claims it has sovereign control of water ways outside internationally recognized territorial limits. That usually means 12 miles for islands and coasts, 3 miles for land features, and 500 meters for artificial islands. You will note USN spokesman said USS Decatur stayed outside 12 mile limits of all Parcel island land features, and China's Defense Ministry didn't contradict that claim. Therefore we could safely assume it is true. Given that fact, it doesn't matter what "baseline" China established in 2016, 1996, 1066, or even 66 BC, those baseline don't impede freedom of the seas outside internationally recognized sovereign territorial limits.

Quite frankly, I think the US is making a mistake by not sailing (safely) near the 3 mile limit of land features, and near 500 meter of artificial islands. It should do just that, if FON has any real meaning. But, that's just my personal opinion.

Amen! and Amen! brodahs and sistahs, who could have any problem wit dat?

 

[delft]

Now Master Delft, I realize Barack Hussein, and Hillary Rodham are ignorant Americans, and that their "Arab Spring" has helped to create the horrible mess that you brilliant European's are now having to live with! "cough!, cough! ...........I'm even willing to concede that if we are "STOOPID" enough to elect HRC, we are likely going to HELL IN A HANDBASKET, actually we are already in a literal hell thanks to Barack Hussein Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton, and their team of "political hacks", with all their "stoopid" emails!

Those "brilliant" Europeans are pretty guilty in supporting US in Afghanistan and Iraq, letting themselves be used to destroy the Libyan state, &c. They should be the independent countries they consider themselves to be but clearly are not. They are too weak to act together even while their military outlays are far larger than those of Russia.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Those "brilliant" Europeans are pretty guilty in supporting US in Afghanistan and Iraq, letting themselves be used to destroy the Libyan state, &c. They should be the independent countries they consider themselves to be but clearly are not. They are too weak to act together even while their military outlays are far larger than those of Russia.

No doubt there is plenty of fault to go around, and our foreign policy is being managed by "nincom-poops" at present, HRC will be "nincom-POOP! squared, IMHO???

I'm just hoping we can avoid a "Biblical Apocalypse"??? particularly is she becomes PRES??? insane!

 

[PanAsian]

If Beijing mean the 9-dash line as de facto "blue territory," then he civilized world can't allow it or any other entity to claim sovereign over international waters. That logic should be plain to all rational and reasonable people.

All rational and reasonable people will also see that the big if you mentioned:

1) has not actually come to pass.

2) is not supported by evidence to actually come to pass, note the dozens of holdings and military outposts of various other claimants which China has not threatened with military force including any US style military FON ops.

3) is just one vague claim made by China out of a multitude of vague and not-so-vague claims made by numerous countries including the US, some of which have actually come to pass, that does not match one of the several common interpretations of UNCLOS.

4) is the fact that drawing a line on a map and making vague claims is nowhere near as threatening and hostile an act as actually and regularly sailing warships just outside other countries' territorial waters for the explicit purpose of challenging their claims based on the warships' country's own selective interpretation of UNCLOS to which it is not even a signatory.

 

[tidalwave]

China needs to setup one carrier strike group in Hainan and another one in Paracel.

When US ship coming to Woody island to do FON, it will surrounded by the carrier fleet and it will make it look punny and weak, like a lion walk into and surrounded by a herd of adult elephants.

It will look Funny.