China's SCS Strategy Thread

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Nope, Most people in Philippines are fully aware this continuing conflicting with China is very bad for Philippines in the future.
It cannot continue like this. They already did their one time deal hit-n-run.
Duterte or No Duterte, Philippines will try to change course one way or another knowing the they already got what they want; the covering flag of the verdict.

This is irrelevant to my previous post.

The point I'm making is that no one is "excited" about Duterte, so your original "cold water" was not in response to anyone, because no one is "excited," right now the general consensus is one of cautious optimism.

If you yourself believe that Duterte does not offer any chance for reconciliation at all then just go out and say it, but if you try to push that opinion and claim that it is a "response" to other people are being too "excited" then unfortunately it is blatantly untrue.
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
This is irrelevant to my previous post.

The point I'm making is that no one is "excited" about Duterte, so your original "cold water" was not in response to anyone, because no one is "excited," right now the general consensus is one of cautious optimism.

If you yourself believe that Duterte does not offer any chance for reconciliation at all then just go out and say it, but if you try to push that opinion and claim that it is a "response" to other people are being too "excited" then unfortunately it is blatantly untrue.

well you know what. "Cautious Optimism" means you don't know the scheme of the things.

From the article I read from. China is aware of Philippines's tactic.
The Aquino admin did the dirty work and subsequent admin will make amend(Duterte or No Duterte) under the coverage of the ruling.
China is not buying this whole scheme. It will make the new admin ignore any court decision or label as void. . I doubt Duterte can do it.
Making amend by new admin is part of great scheme. I don't see how "Cautious Optimism" can fit in?
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
well you know what. "Cautious Optimism" means you don't know the scheme of the things.

From the article I read from. China is aware of Philippines's tactic.
The Aquino admin did the dirty work and subsequent admin will make amend(Duterte or No Duterte) under the coverage of the ruling.
China is not buying this whole scheme. It will make the new admin ignore any court decision or label as void. . I doubt Duterte can do it.
Making amend by new admin is part of great scheme. I don't see how "Cautious Optimism" can fit in?

No, cautious optimism is there because at this early stage Duterte appears to be more willing to talk than Aquino ever was, and this is a demonstrable fact. This doesn't mean Duterte is going to be able to solve the issue, but simply signalling the willingness to talk and engage more positively with China is a reason to have some cautious optimism.

You on the other hand, seem very convinced that all of Duterte's actions are merely a lure and a ploy, but the problem is that it's based on speculation and at this early stage we cannot know what his long term intentions are. Therefore your excessively confident negative appraisal of Duterte and his actions come across as illogical and not backed by evidence.
Then further, by in turn claiming you are trying to pour cold water over people's "excitement" makes even less sense because no one is "excited".

If you want to claim that you think Duterte's actions are merely a ploy and a lure and you believe China will not accept it, then fine, go ahead. But you cannot make your claim with such confidence and to speak as if your beliefs are supported by current facts or actions, and you most certainly cannot claim that your posts are in response to others being "excited" because there is no one who is "excited" to begin with.
 

hkky

New Member
Registered Member
There is absolutely no link with the naval reactor design and Westinghouse commercial reactor design. In fact there is no real Westinghouse as we used to know anymore. The company was taken over by CBS (yes, think radio and TV) and was sold to British Nuclear Fuel and then to Toshiba. Both latter companies lease the Westinghouse name from CBS. The AP1000 precursor, the AP600 was designed under CBS, but AP1000 was under BNFL and later Toshiba. Naval reactor design is done by a government lab operated by Westinghouse until 1998.

About the only link I can think of would be former lab employees or navy personnel hired by Westinghouse. If you think they'd divulge information on naval reactor design be my guest.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
I hope China and the Philippines reach a peaceful resolution on this issue. Hopefully it'll also open up peaceful dialog with other South East Asian countries.

China will stay there forever and will be the Philippine's neighbours forever, whether they like it or not ... while the US will only be there as long as their interest bigger than their risks ... and everybody is aware China is going stronger everyday in term of economic and military ... at one point (I expect 2020-2025) the US and China will reach an "agreement" and suddenly everything is just fine

So the Philippine better play safe and stop being too offensive to China (like Aquino), the Chinese have a very long memory
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
SHANGHAI, July 9 (Reuters) - The Chinese navy conducted combat drills near its southern island province of Hainan and the Paracel islands in the South China Sea, the Ministry of Defense said on Saturday.

The drills come ahead of a July 12 ruling by the Hague-based Permanent Court of Arbitration on a case brought by the Philippines disputing several of China's territory claims in the South China Sea.

Ships from China's northern, eastern and southern fleets participated in Friday's drills, which focused on air control, surface operations and anti-submarine warfare, among other training exercises, the ministry said in a website statement.

China claims nearly all the South China Sea, but its claims overlap in part with those of Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam.

China has repeatedly said it does not consider any decision reached by the arbitration court to be legally binding.

"China adheres to the position of settling disputes through negotiation and consultation with states directly concerned," state news agency Xinhua said in a commentary on Saturday.

"This has always been China's policy, and it will never change." (Reporting by Nathaniel Taplin; Editing by Clarence Fernandez)

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Brumby

Major
Key rulings to watch out for in South China Sea case
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Key points to watch out for in July 12’srulings by the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in the Hague and what they might imply.

Will Taiping Island be downgraded to a “rock”?

If the PCA mentions Taiping, or Itu Aba, in its final award, and furthermore concludes it is a “rock”, it will mean there is hardly a single “island” among the more than 100 land features in the Spratly Islands archipelago. Does that mean they should be renamed the Spratly Rocks?

Taiping is the largest natural feature in the Spratlys, with an area of about half a square kilometre. It has been occupied by the Republic of China (ROC) government, based in Taipei, since 1956, while also being claimed by the People’s Republic of China (PRC) government in Beijing, the Philippines and Vietnam.

A maritime feature classified as a rock carries with it entitlement to a territorial sea extending out 12 nautical miles, but does not get an exclusive economic zone (EEZ), with a radius of 200 nautical miles, or further rights.

If no feature in the Spratlys is entitled to an EEZ, the surrounding countries – the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Vietnam – could each simply draw EEZ lines from their own major islands or coasts into that part of the South China Sea and claim the respective rights. But if Taiping is considered an island, the ROC and PRC, which inherited the ROC’s territorial claims in 1949, would enjoy EEZ rights around it, giving them overlapping EEZ claims in the South China Sea with the Philippines and other claimants.

Taiping is occupied by the ROC, which is not recognised as sovereign country by the United Nations, the PCA, or either of the parties involved in the case. They all consider Taiwan part of the PRC, so even without physically occupying Taiping, Beijing could still claim its EEZ.

Indeed, in its official response to the case brought by the Philippines, Beijing said in 2014 that Manila had violated the “one China” principle by deliberately excluding Taiping from “Chinese occupied or controlled” islands in its requests to the PCA.

Taiping is only 199 nautical miles from the Philippines’ Palawan Island but the Taiping issue was not included in the first Philippine submissions and was instead raised in merit hearings late last year, after the release of Beijing’s 2014 position paper.

The Philippines argued Taiping has neither civilian habitation nor sustainable economic life, because it is a military garrison and relies on outside supplies.

In response, then Taiwanese president Ma Ying-jeou flew a team of international journalists there in March to prove it was habitable.

How the island’s new president, Tsai Ing-wen, will react to any PCA ruling on Taiping will be closely watched.

Will the “nine-dash line” be declared invalid?

The U-shaped, nine-dash line encircling most of the South China Sea is the core of China’s claim, and the centre of controversy.

It was first published on a map drawn by the ROC government in 1947 and then inherited by the PRC in 1949, but neither of them have had effective control over the entire area.

Beijing claims sovereignty over all land features inside the line, and in individual cases has referred to the line to claim vague “historical” maritime rights. However, it has never clarified the line’s meaning in legal terms, or what kind of entitlements it wants within it.

The Philippines has asked the tribunal to reject Beijing’s possible claims to sovereign rights and jurisdiction, and to “historic rights” within the area encompassed by the line.

Manila has said the line exceeds the geographic and substantive limits of maritime entitlements under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), such as a territorial sea, EEZ, and so on, and therefore has no legal effect.

Beijing has said it will ignore any rulings by the PCA.

Will mainland China’s activities in the South China Sea be deemed to be damaging the environment (and will it be told to stop)?

The tribunal has said it has the authority to judge whether Beijing has violated its duty to protect and preserve the marine environment at Scarborough Shoal and Second Thomas Shoal.

In addition, the tribunal may also consider whether Chinese construction projects at Mischief Reef have damaged the marine environment, as argued by the Philippines.

The Philippines presented evidence that it said proved “illegal and unregulated” Chinese fishing and massive island building activities had damaged the ecological systems of coral reefs, endangered species such as turtles and sharks, and caused maritime pollution.

If such activities are found to be in breach of UNCLOS, the same logic might be applied to similar activities at other islands or reefs that are also part of what has been dubbed the “Great Wall of sand”.

Will four of the islands controlled by Beijing (Scarborough Shoal, Johnson Reef, Cuarteron Reef and Fiery Cross Reef) be defined as “rocks”?

The tribunal will decide if each of these land features qualifies for having an exclusive economic zone.

If the tribunal specifically declares they “generate no entitlement to an exclusive economic zone or continental shelf”, Beijing would not be able to share EEZ rights with countries controlling nearby islands.

In particular, if Scarborough Shoal, which is not part of the Spratlys, is deemed a “rock” it would fall into the EEZ of the Philippines’ Luzon Island, which is about 125 nautical miles away. The Philippines would have legal grounds to exercise rights to fishery, oil and gas resources and scientific research in nearby waters, even though mainland China took control of the shoal in 2012.

Will mainland China’s two largest artificial islands be defined as “low-tide elevations”?

Mischief and Subi reefs have become the two biggest land masses in the South China Sea after massive reclamation in the past couple of years. Mischief is now more than 10 times the size of Taiping.

If the tribunal says they are naturally low-tide elevations, which only emerge above water at low tide, the two major Chinese bases in the Spratlys would have no territorial sea, EEZ, or other rights. Instead, they could only claim a 500-metre safety zone surrounding them.

Moreover, without entitlements of their own, they would fall into the EEZ of nearby islands. Since the EEZ rights holder is entitled to jurisdiction over the establishment and use of “artificial islands, installations and structures” in the EEZ, other countries, including the Philippines, would have an endorsement to challenge the legitimacy of China’s constructions on Mischief and Subi.

Will two Chinese-occupied reefs be included in the territorial sea of Vietnamese-controlled islands?

Gaven and McKennan (Hughes) are two small reefs within 12 nautical miles of the islands of Namyit and Sin Cowe, respectively. Beijing, Taipei and Hanoi claim all four of them.

The Philippines asked the tribunal to declare the two Chinese-occupied reefs “low-tide elevations” without territorial sea, contiguous zone or EEZ, and to use them when measuring the territorial sea of Namyit and Sin Cowe islands, both occupied by Vietnam.

If a low-tide elevation lies within an island’s 12-nautical-mile territorial sea, UNCLOS allows the territorial sea to be extended for another 12 nautical miles starting from the elevation – if the elevation and the island are undisputedly owned by one state.

If the tribunal supports the second half of the Philippine demand, Vietnam, an unmentioned third party in the arbitration, would find itself with an unexpected advantage in those particular territorial contests.

Will Beijing’s administrative and law enforcement in the disputed shoals be ruled unlawful?

The Philippines accused the mainland Chinese authorities of impeding Filipino fishermen near Scarborough shoal, and doing so in a dangerous manner.

Manila also accused Beijing of interfering with the resupply of a Philippine warship intentionally grounded at Second Thomas Shoal, which Beijing threatened to remove a couple of weeks ago.

These submissions are arguably related to more complicated territorial sovereignty issues, over which Beijing says the tribunal does not have jurisdiction.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
In the same way as the US and its allies created a network of listening devices on the sea floor across Asia to listen out for Russian submarines during the cold war, China is now in position to deploy a similar network from its bases across the South China Sea.

Satellite imagery suggests that China's new islands are bristling with advanced sensors including radar arrays and satellite communications stations, all of which bolster its navy's situational awareness above and below the South China Sea.

Such technologies may also provide command and control infrastructure for communications with China's ballistic missile submarine force, not only helping it to evade detection but also to target any adversary.

Alexander Neill is Shangri-La Dialogue Senior Fellow

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