China's red sea/gulf/middle east strategy

lcloo said:

Because PLAN does not do convoy protection inside the Red Sea where the Americans and its allies are operating.

The convoys start their journey at the Gulf of Aden and ended somewhere south of Iran where the boats of the Somalia pirates are not able to reach. It is well documented for decades that they accept any foreign ships that applied to join the convoy, it is in the news all the time (though the Western media rarely report this). You can google yourself (in Chinese if possible) or check some CCTV documentaries on You Tube.

All ships, Chinese or foreign, must applied to join the convoy by radio or other means. The conoy must travel together at the same time and same speed and headings.

No Chinese ships have been attacked in the Red Sea. There were a few attempted attacks on the concoy by Somali pirates in Gulf of Aden, but they were all repelled by PLAN.

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I looked it up, this seems to refute your claims that China doesn't do escort in red sea.. I originally saw it on voanews site but I refuse to use that as a source, global times shall suffice instead


And it sounds like you are talking about normal anti piracy missions but I am just taking about red sea escorts. So other than the above point, I agree with what you said. Also the formating seems to be stuffed up and not worth the effort to multi quote so I won't on my phone

lcloo said:

You are trying to implied that China is collaborating with Houthi, there is absolutely no evidence of such or else the anti-China US news media, especially Bloomberg.com, would have it on big headlines for days, just like the "Chinese pinhead spy chip inside the Iphone" fake news that appear in Bloomberg's headline for weeks during 2018.

Houthi is supported by Iran, and they worked closely with each other. And Iran has good intel capability.

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Nah not really implying, I admit it's just my wild speculation as a random netizen with zero evidence. Take it as you will. I'm not Bloomberg or publishing an article for newspaper lol. Based on what you said I can say the same thing. Where's the evidence iran is providing such info directly? In the end it's all speculation. You say houthi works closely with Iran but Iran also works closely with China.. no? Even if China doesn't work with houthi, it is undoubtedly working with Iran, just like it is working with Russia, nk, and everyone else it has strategic relations with.

Iran drones made using Chinese components for example. China doing 400 billion deal with Iran. Huawei setting up networks and communication, they probably use beidou and Chinese anti ship missiles etc. it's not a stretch to say China and Iran are working closely and keeping in touch on red sea issues..

Ex0 said:

I looked it up, this seems to refute your claims that China doesn't do escort in red sea.. I originally saw it on voanews site but I refuse to use that as a source, global times shall suffice instead

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And it sounds like you are talking about normal anti piracy missions but I am just taking about red sea escorts. So other than the above point, I agree with what you said. Also the formating seems to be stuffed up and not worth the effort to multi quote so I won't on my phone

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Yes, this you are right. The news from PLAN spokeman did mentioned this just 4 days ago, I must have missed this piece of news.



This news is 5 days old.

国防部回应“中国海军护航通过红海的中国货轮”​

2024-02-29 19:09:36发布于陕西环球网官方账号
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【环球时报-环球网报道 记者 郭媛丹】近日，中国海军第46批护航编队起航赴亚丁湾执行任务。有外媒报道称，中国海军开始为通过红海的中国货轮护航。对此，国防部新闻发言人张晓刚29日表示，中国海军舰艇编队赴亚丁湾、索马里海域实施常态化护航行动，与当前地区局势无关。军事专家29日对《环球时报》记者表示，中国海军舰艇编队护航的海域涵盖阿拉伯海和红海地区，外国船舶提出申请，中国海军舰艇编队也会将其编入常态化护航编队中给予护航。

Ex0 said:

Nah not really implying, I admit it's just my wild speculation as a random netizen with zero evidence. Take it as you will. I'm not Bloomberg or publishing an article for newspaper lol. Based on what you said I can say the same thing. Where's the evidence iran is providing such info directly? In the end it's all speculation. You say houthi works closely with Iran but Iran also works closely with China.. no? Even if China doesn't work with houthi, it is undoubtedly working with Iran, just like it is working with Russia, nk, and everyone else it has strategic relations with.

Iran drones made using Chinese components for example. China doing 400 billion deal with Iran. Huawei setting up networks and communication, they probably use beidou and Chinese anti ship missiles etc. it's not a stretch to say China and Iran are working closely and keeping in touch on red sea issues..

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Your this arguement is really shifting the goal post with irrelevant pieces of news on Huawei, China-Iran diplomatic relations etc etc. I don't have to elaborate anything. Majority of members here who have been watching China news can judge for themselves far better.

Selling weapons to Iran doesn't means China and Iran working closely. And most of the transactions are done a long time ago. I fact, I find that your consistency of bring in China in the current Red Sea mess as if China is responsible is quite mind boggling. This whole mess is caused by Israel and US allies vs Palestine and Houthi. Dragging China into this mess seem to be your intention from post #1 and post #22.

lcloo said:

Your this arguement is really shifting the goal post with irrelevant pieces of news on Huawei, China-Iran diplomatic relations etc etc. I don't have to elaborate anything. Majority of members here who have been watching China news can judge for themselves far better.

Selling weapons to Iran doesn't means China and Iran working closely. And most of the transactions are done a long time ago. I fact, I find that your consistency of bring in China in the current Red Sea mess as if China is responsible is quite mind boggling. This whole mess is caused by Israel and US allies vs Palestine and Houthi. Dragging China into this mess seem to be your intention from post #1 and post #22.

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Don't get me wrong. I am in no way saying that China is responsible for any of the current issues, especially red sea, houthi vs yemen coalition, houthi vs USA, or Israel/Palestine. I don't know where or how you reached such a conclusion.

With that said, I am just looking at it from a purely logic and self interests based perspective.

Do you not agree that it is logical and would benefit china if china can sail in red sea but others can't? And also if China works with Iran or houthi, they can avoid dangerous attacks or accidents. If they can do that, why wouldn't they? Iran doesn't have such good Intel or ships in the Red Sea like China does, and how can they know the exact crews or flags etc which can be faked. Again this is just my speculation, I am not claiming that China is doing it. Just that they can, and there is reason/logic to do so.

Same as Russia providing same info. Why wouldn't they when USA is doing the same for Ukraine?

China would be well within it's rights and even not be immoral/unethical just to confirm if it is indeed Chinese ships or whether they care or not if X ship is targeted. It just makes sense for all sides to do such a thing. If you disagree with my logic, tell me why China wouldn't do it or shouldn't do it? Or why it wouldn't benefit china to do it? China and USA are in great power competition and this is one of China's many cards it can play. They'd be stupid not to since just sharing info with Iran or houthi as to whether it's a Chinese ship or not does not mean China is taking sides or is an actual participant of the conflict. It is just identification and saying they can do whatever, just leave China and Chinese people and interests out of it. It is up to houthi or iran what they target. It aligns with Chinese interests so why not?

lcloo said:

Your this arguement is really shifting the goal post with irrelevant pieces of news on Huawei, China-Iran diplomatic relations etc etc. I don't have to elaborate anything. Majority of members here who have been watching China news can judge for themselves far better.

Selling weapons to Iran doesn't means China and Iran working closely. And most of the transactions are done a long time ago. I fact, I find that your consistency of bring in China in the current Red Sea mess as if China is responsible is quite mind boggling. This whole mess is caused by Israel and US allies vs Palestine and Houthi. Dragging China into this mess seem to be your intention from post #1 and post #22.

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Well, I don't see any problem if China really help Houthi in some extend, secretly. In Indonesia, where many Muslim hate China because they're Communist, but every time there is a fake news regarding China help Palestine or Iran or Houthi, they'll glorify China like a hero. That show that US influence in the Southern Hemisphere has been declined so much. If China can play this card masterfully, they can gain a lot of influence in the Islamic World today. Specially when Israel massacre in Gaza really create a massive hatred to Israel and the West by the Muslim world.

This is a real opportunity to punch US in the crotch. Also, if with Russia (and China secretly) help, Houthi can bring trouble to US Naval might in Middle East, the myth of US Naval Superiority will be crumble. And that will benefit China a lot.

Brainsuker said:

Well, I don't see any problem if China really help Houthi in some extend, secretly. In Indonesia, where many Muslim hate China because they're Communist, but every time there is a fake news regarding China help Palestine or Iran or Houthi, they'll glorify China like a hero. That show that US influence in the Southern Hemisphere has been declined so much. If China can play this card masterfully, they can gain a lot of influence in the Islamic World today. Specially when Israel massacre in Gaza really create a massive hatred to Israel and the West by the Muslim world.

This is a real opportunity to punch US in the crotch. Also, if with Russia (and China secretly) help, Houthi can bring trouble to US Naval might in Middle East, the myth of US Naval Superiority will be crumble. And that will benefit China a lot.

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Exactly. And like i said, just giving identification info on whether a ship is Chinese or not, or whether China cares if it is targeted doesnt mean china is now a direct participant. Imo China can even do this openly and proudly, and no one could do anything. But of course USA would lose face, and so china does it's usual thing of biding the time and growing their strength and non confrontation/non interference unless it is the only last option left.

I'm also curious about your communist hate comment about business. Why does Indonesians hate communism so much. Or china? Does indonesia think China is still a real communist country even today? This has nothing to do with the xinjiang/Muslim genocide fake news?

It can't be that bad if China is helping them build high speed rail and this and that. Does anyone know if China has sold Indonesia weapons in the past and/or had any real strategic level cooperation?

The first two parts of the article were bullshit, made in order to 'pre-op' the true extent of the situation for the readers, whereas their real feelings came in these last few paragraphs I pasted below here:

Meanwhile, America’s own effort to perform its old job of securing the sea lanes has proved little more than a fiasco. With the U.S. Navy severely

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and

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around the globe, it attempted to assemble “

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”, a multinational coalition of forces under its command meant to patrol the Rea Sea. But this effort functionally collapsed almost immediately when France, Italy and Spain—all of whom Washington prematurely announced would be members—

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to participate, saying they wouldn’t accept U.S. command. No Middle Eastern countries other than Bahrain signed up either. In a throwback to yesteryear, navies are instead each going solo and escorting the vessels sailing under their own flags and titles. What we are seeing, then, is a true breakdown in the “international order”—in the sense of there being any order—that was once imposed by American power. We are returning to an older, more typical world in which there is no world policeman, and everyone is obliged to protect their own national interests.

The Chinese are well prepared to capitalize on this situation. Although COSCO has for now also abandoned the Red Sea route, other smaller Chinese shippers have spotted commercial opportunity and

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to fill the gap. China United Lines (CULines), for example, has rushed to start up a “Red Sea Express” service linking Saudi Arabia’s Jeddah to Chinese ports. They are able to do so because the Houthis seem to be under strict orders to try to avoid attacking China-linked vessels. Ships still running the straits into the Red Sea now regularly make sure to prominently display Chinese flags and use their satellite identification data to announce that they have Chinese owners, or even just Chinese crew members. The number of vessels transiting the area while preemptively broadcasting that they carry Chinese crew has

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from less than two per day to more than 30 in late January. Apparently this is the magic talisman to keep pirates at bay—though China’s navy has at least three warships in the area to escort its vessels, should it prove insufficient.

The reason Beijing seems so relaxed about the crisis is obvious: this is a situation in which China wins either way. Either the threat continues but shipping is safer for Chinese vessels than for others, in which case sailing under the protection of the red and gold flag may become a coveted competitive advantage, or Beijing finally tells Iran to knock it off, in which case China becomes the principal beneficiary of the security vacuum left by the United States. Both outcomes would be geopolitical coups. No wonder China is willing to accept a little short-term economic pain as the situation plays out.

Meanwhile, the crisis also provides China with a real justification for continuing to rapidly build out a “blue water” navy able to project power far from its own shores. As it happens, this is the same justification traditionally been offered by the United States: that, in the absence of security and stability, it needs the ability to protect global sea lanes and the lives of its citizens abroad. The military base China built in Djibouti in 2016 to enable the deployment of its warships across the Indian Ocean and around the Horn of Africa now looks prudent.

This is how the “world order” has always been shaped and reshaped: by nations and empires acting abroad to protect their own interests—or progressively failing to do so while others move to fill the void. The crisis in the Red Sea is therefore both symbolically and practically meaningful. Unless the United States and its allies can get their act together, we may look back on this as a moment when a vast geopolitical shift was revealed for all to see. As for everyone else, it’s likely that the crisis will serve as a sign that the time to prepare for the harsh realities of a far more “multipolar”, less globalized world has by now well and truly arrived.

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The fact was the US was going to have a hard time dealing with the Houthis hence why they wanted a large coalition purely so it didn't look like the mighty US couldn't beat them by themselves. Instead they got the UK who looked just as bad like a Monty Python sketch about their ship that was struck saying it didn't sink and when it was actually all underwater spinning how it wasn't sunk by the Houthis. The fragile egos of the West.

Ex0 said:

Exactly. And like i said, just giving identification info on whether a ship is Chinese or not, or whether China cares if it is targeted doesnt mean china is now a direct participant. Imo China can even do this openly and proudly, and no one could do anything. But of course USA would lose face, and so china does it's usual thing of biding the time and growing their strength and non confrontation/non interference unless it is the only last option left.

I'm also curious about your communist hate comment about business. Why does Indonesians hate communism so much. Or china? Does indonesia think China is still a real communist country even today? This has nothing to do with the xinjiang/Muslim genocide fake news?

It can't be that bad if China is helping them build high speed rail and this and that. Does anyone know if China has sold Indonesia weapons in the past and/or had any real strategic level cooperation?

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Some of it because of the past historical event in Indonesia. There was a rivalry between Islamic factions and Indonesian Communist Party since the beginning of 20th century. Both factions had histories of rebelling toward the government since the beginning of the Republic. But both power are comparable in influence. At least as long as the first president, Soekarno was in power.

But, then, there was an event that called as G30S PKI to be happen. After that, PKI (Indonesian Communist Party) was disbanded, and considered as rebel who want to change our country ideology to communism. Well, looking at how communism did that in various country in that era, I will not surprise if that was really happen back then.

G30 S PKI was an event that followed with a regime change. From Soekarno, the first president to Soeharto, the 2nd president. And with that, PKI (Indonesia Communist Party) was disbanded, and the new regime declared that Communism to be banned from the country. Everyone in the country must have a religion. But not only that, the hatred between Muslim and Communists were deep enough that they would kill each others if it was allowed to happen. So, the massacre of the sympatizer of Communists party were massacred after that. Not only that, with Orde Baru (Soeharto regime) propaganda, people hates communist to the core. And because China is a communist country, they also hate China back then.

Well, I think there was an involvement of Western Power back then. I think from Mi6 and CIA, because 1966 was the height of Cold War era. And Soekarno was so close with Beijing and Moscow. Beside, Indonesia attacked Malaysia that protected by British Empire. That's why it was not strange if they, UK want Soekarno Regime to collapse.

But even after the collapse of Orde Baru (Soeharto regime), hard core Islamic Factions (you can call them as Extremist, or Islamic Fundamentalism faction) still use the danger of Communism as their propaganda. Although well, there is no Communist anymore in Indonesia.

But today, when Middle east on fire, with Israel massacre on Gaza, whenever there is a fake news about China involvement that side to Palestine or Houthi, they will "horray" like calling China a hero. So for them, Israel is the greatest devil in our world, and Communism, even if they hate it, still not comparable to their hate to Israel. And because US is in Israel side, they also hate US.