China's overland Silk Road and Maritime Silk Road Thread

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Equation

Lieutenant General
advill said:
The Church or any religious organisations have no right to interfere with politics or government in any country. They should focus on prayers & good work for the good of the nation. From what I heard, I believe the Catholic Church - i.e. the Vatican is coming closer to re-establishing Diplomatic Relations with China. Pope Francis & the Holy See have reportedly come to some agreement with China's Foreign Ministry that (1) The Catholic Church in China will only focus on Religious matters (2) The Church will not interfere with China's politics and governance. Yes, this would be the best way to go, as the Catholic Church had since the 18th Century (sic) had close relations with China (the Imperial Court then.) I understand some suspicion of religious interference in politics & some countries government. Examples of the "Boxers" during the time of Imperial China, and now the radicalised Chinese Muslims in Xijiang Province. Islamic (IS) radicalisation and terrorist activities have spread to several countries of the world including London recently, the EU countries and even in Southeast Asia. But like everything else, we should not generalise that because a particular religion had been hijacked by extremists, it means all Religions whether Catholics, Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists etc. are the same. Time advances, & changes in thinking & policies must suit the Country's & its people needs. The sage Chuang Tzu "The candle may be consumed, but fire will be passed on, and will never be extinguished" - this can be related to Religions of Peace & are caring to people and the good of the country. God bless.
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Religion is more a private spiritual matter and it should stay that way, but through out history the separation of church and state is easier said than done.
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
PiSigma said:
I don't think cleaning up the party like what Xi is doing is effective long term, long term solution needs a change in governance where corruption is punished regardless of power.
An independent judiciary is still important for stopping the abuse of power. If there are misinterpretations of laws it just means the legislation was poorly written, because the people writing it should also ensure it is applicable.
Greater good doesn't mean the little guys can be sacrificed. The cases that some guy losses his house for development is normally because they are not compensated adequately or at all for their loss and not because a new development is bad (corruption).
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Independent judiciary can be bought and corrupted by another outside parties. What Xi is doing is more affective to keep the corrupters in check. Greater good is about progressing society without either the big guy or the little guy getting in the way.
 
Blackstone

Blackstone

Brigadier
PiSigma said:
Xi won't there forever. What need to change is the mentality on corruption and a system designed where a strong personality/leader is not absolutely needed.
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Institutions are the key. Good institutions could address some of the excesses of "bad emperors," but bad institutions cap the upper limits of social and economic development. Looking around the world, we see the common thread of good institutions in all all developed countries, even though some of them occasionally have bad leaders. On the other hand, nations with bad institutions are mostly basket cases, and the occasional 'good emperors' are hamstrung by his or her institutions.

The lesson history teaches us is when it comes to national development, the proven road to success is summarized by:
  1. Strong central authority that can marshal resources and make decisions, especially the unpopular ones, to advance economic, industrial, and infrastructure developments
  2. Create good institutions to support said developments
  3. Unbalanced development models are better than balanced ones
  4. Co-op the middle and upper classes as more citizens attain affluence and wealth
  5. Avoid large-scale social and political reforms until nation is fully developed
 
PiSigma

PiSigma

"the engineer"
Blackstone said:
Institutions are the key. Good institutions could address some of the excesses of "bad emperors," but bad institutions cap the upper limits of social and economic development. Looking around the world, we see the common thread of good institutions in all all developed countries, even though some of them occasionally have bad leaders. On the other hand, nations with bad institutions are mostly basket cases, and the occasional 'good emperors' are hamstrung by his or her institutions.

The lesson history teaches us is when it comes to national development, the proven road to success is summarized by:
  1. Strong central authority that can marshal resources and make decisions, especially the unpopular ones, to advance economic, industrial, and infrastructure developments
  2. Create good institutions to support said developments
  3. Unbalanced development models are better than balanced ones
  4. Co-op the middle and upper classes as more citizens attain affluence and wealth
  5. Avoid large-scale social and political reforms until nation is fully developed
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Exactly!! Citizens need to feel like they are part of the system to support it.

At the current stage in China's development a few strong leaders are needed to push through large scale developments. But once a certain middle class wealth level is reached by the majority (here I mean over 90%) then you need institutions to maintain the country to avoid the bad emperor problem.
 
Blackstone

Blackstone

Brigadier
90% middle class is too high, since no sizable nation on the planet has attained that. More realistic percentage of middle-class and above is about 60% to two-thirds.
 
D

delft

Brigadier
PiSigma said:
Exactly!! Citizens need to feel like they are part of the system to support it.

At the current stage in China's development a few strong leaders are needed to push through large scale developments. But once a certain middle class wealth level is reached by the majority (here I mean over 90%) then you need institutions to maintain the country to avoid the bad emperor problem.
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US doesn't suffer from the bad emperor syndrome, whatever anyone thinks of President Trump. It suffers from the decay of the institutions, according to Prof. Van Bavel since about 1960: see
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page 237pp.
China will soon have to start thinking, maybe is already thinking, about preventing falling into the same pit.
 
I

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
plawolf said:
In light of all that, it's no accident or fluke that China appears to not only be catching up with the west, but is actually also pulling ahead in a lot of key next gen tech fields like quantum and super computing; hypesonic vehicles and EM tech.
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Let's not start getting messy with the facts in your unbridled enthusiasm. China is by no means ahead of the US in either hypersonic vehicles or in EM tech.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
Blackstone said:
Institutions are the key. Good institutions could address some of the excesses of "bad emperors," but bad institutions cap the upper limits of social and economic development. Looking around the world, we see the common thread of good institutions in all all developed countries, even though some of them occasionally have bad leaders. On the other hand, nations with bad institutions are mostly basket cases, and the occasional 'good emperors' are hamstrung by his or her institutions.

The lesson history teaches us is when it comes to national development, the proven road to success is summarized by:
  1. Strong central authority that can marshal resources and make decisions, especially the unpopular ones, to advance economic, industrial, and infrastructure developments
  2. Create good institutions to support said developments
  3. Unbalanced development models are better than balanced ones
  4. Co-op the middle and upper classes as more citizens attain affluence and wealth
  5. Avoid large-scale social and political reforms until nation is fully developed
Click to expand...

There is no "proven road to success". What works for one nation won't necessarily work another. What is a good institution under one set of circumstances can be bad in a different set of circumstances.

Institutions also take time to develop, far more time than people usually think. The American justice system was still an instrument of racial oppression as recent as 50 years ago. Some would argue it still is.

Institutions also decay. Trump won not because he was a particularly inspiring candidate, but because *ALL* of his opponents were terrible. Bush had his brother's Iraq war baggage, Rubio and Cruz were religious nutcases, and Clinton was a pathological liar. These were the crop of leadership candidates produced by the American political institution. When all the apples on a tree are rotten, the problem is with the tree.

Sun Tzu famously said, "know yourself and know your enemy, and you will win every battle". Success is a path built upon knowing what you can do, knowing what your peers and rivals can do, and making good use of that knowledge.
 
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