China's Defense/Military Breaking News Thread

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Lezt

Junior Member
Of the three supposedly achieved goals, which ones were military victories? 1) and 2) have no direct relation to military victory by China. China could have gotten its butt absolutely WHIPPED and still achieve objectives 1) and 2).

I dispute the significance of 3). If by "reduce" you mean lessen to any extent, then yes. But on the other hand, China also had a similar "reduction" in economic and military strength. Were either of these reductions significant to Vietnam? Not at all. Did Vietnam leave Cambodia? No. Did Vietnam become so weakened that it was unable to resist any further incursions by China or some other regional power? No. Did Vietnam lose the support of USSR? No, clearly it never really had it to begin with. So what did Vietnam lose that was of any significance? The answer is nothing.

What do you mean that China had a similar reduction of economy? China lost only men and material, Vietnam lost men, material, infrastructure, adobes, factories, livestock - how can the reduction of economy be similar? how can these be insignificant to vietnam? As history had shown, the nation where the battle was fought always suffers more.

I don't think it matters that if Vietnam can still resist other nations, or did not leave Cambodia. that is meaningless, as saying that China won because China still have a larger army; or that since China can still invade Vietnam, China won. So what if Vietnam can still resist another armed incursion or stayed in Cambodia? History had shown that the Vietnamese economy stagnated because of this. The fact is, China forced Vietnam into a North Korea situation, for her ability to resist an invasion, Vietnam had to feed a massive army and neglect her economy.

The fact is, the mutual defense agreement between Vietnam and USSR went out the window; - or effectively useless. The fact became that Vietnam had to spend her meager national wealth almost entirely on defense to prevent destruction by China meant that the economy cannot grow.

So yes, Vietnam did lose a lot, especially in terms of economy and opportunities.
 

no_name

Colonel
Lets look at it this way - Had the Sino-vietnamese conflict not broke out and Vietnam free to stably pursue economic development - We could today be looking at another country with South Korea level of development, bordering China and having a stake in the South China sea.
 

nemo

Junior Member
Lets look at it this way - Had the Sino-vietnamese conflict not broke out and Vietnam free to stably pursue economic development - We could today be looking at another country with South Korea level of development, bordering China and having a stake in the South China sea.

No way that will ever happen. You are talking about a country that's at war since it's establishment, and had fought a superpower for at least a decade. Vietnam was starting from a base even lower than China at the time. Without the threat from China, and concentrating on economics, it's GDP may be 50% to 100% higher than it is now, maximum. That's no where near South Korea -- more like around the level of Philippine.
 
Smaller countries can be more nimble though. Strong leadership of a cohesive elite harnessing collective societal desire to do something can accomplish a lot especially with outside injection of investment and expertise. That's how all of the developing countries and several of the developed ones got to where they are today, China and the USA included.
 

nemo

Junior Member
Smaller countries can be more nimble though. Strong leadership of a cohesive elite harnessing collective societal desire to do something can accomplish a lot especially with outside injection of investment and expertise. That's how all of the developing countries and several of the developed ones got to where they are today, China and the USA included.

In Vietnam's case, though, it's government is less effective compare to China's, delivering less growth over the same period (1990-now). So instead of catching up, it's falling further behind.
 

Hytenxic

New Member
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Describes how China's military is just a 'Paper tiger'. I think it makes some good points about the budget and the matter of having allies in the region. However the article makes some big assumptions regarding the level of technology of China's armed forces as a whole.

What do you guys think of this? Typical drivel or some thing worth discussing?
 

Lezt

Junior Member
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Describes how China's military is just a 'Paper tiger'. I think it makes some good points about the budget and the matter of having allies in the region. However the article makes some big assumptions regarding the level of technology of China's armed forces as a whole.

What do you guys think of this? Typical drivel or some thing worth discussing?

mmm just a rumbling of a guy, Some of what he said is true, but blown out of proportion. Yes China have MIC corruption, but so does Russia, Japan, USA, UK etc - i.e. it is moot. What if China doesn't have allies? the question is, do China need them? China have a implicit defence pack with Russia, that is already the 2nd and 3rd largest military having an "alliance" does it matter if you have some small country like the Philippines as allies?

Similarly in hardware, yes the J7 and J8 are old designs, but it doesn't mean that J8IIM designed and built in 2006 is equal that of a 1960s fighter.

Likewise, tanks, Does it matter if China have only 700+ type 99 and 2000+ Type 96 (not the 450 as the author have claimed) is a small tank force compared to the 5000 M1 Abrams the USA have? Who except Russia can send in a meaningful amount of tanks into the northern Chinese plains where tanks can be supported whereas they will sink in the swampy south?

And; the author doesn't understand that the ski is supposed to allow J15 to take off with full fuel and combat load as shown in these forums - at least in theory. Also, why is it a China VS USA comparison?

Where is the proof that the J20 RCS is questionable? that payload, avionics is not up to scratch?

So, I say take it as a grain of salt.
 

Pmichael

Junior Member
The article forgets to mentions the different strategical goals of the different countries.

And aren't only 1200 of the A2 and SEP variants in operational service, while the other thousands of the A1s are stored somewhere?
 

Hyperwarp

Captain
Can't find any specific "ground-based" RADAR thread, so I am dumping all these here.

Via =GT @ CDF : JY-27A Air Surveillance & Guidance Radar.

JY27A_1.jpg


JY27A_2.jpg
 
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