China's Defense/Military Breaking News Thread
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The USAF F15s are all quite outdated...The most advanced F15 in the world today...is not flown by the USAF. This new F15G is in fact AESA equipped from the production model and not just an upgrade component .
So I envisage a face off between the new F15G vs the J11B (war games ) very soon.
Skywatcher
Captain
I think it might be more appropriate to compare the J-11B and F-15E.
Incidentally, does anyone know where I can find previous proceedings from the past conferences of the CSMI?
Thanks.
Incidentally, does anyone know where I can find previous proceedings from the past conferences of the CSMI?
Thanks.
F-15E is a cut above the F-15C but not new enough and the electronics are still dated. The correspond equivalent of the F-15E is the Su-30MKK, of which the J-11B is still ahead. I would say the F-15G is well ahead of the J-11B due to its AESA, and the most corresponding match to the J-11B would be the F-15K which is still MESA but has all the updated electronics.
ravenshield936
Banned Idiot
hi guys
i have a question
im a big fan of the F-15, but i wonder what position and respect does this plane gets in the modern world of other equally and more competitive fighters, including amongst F-14,F-16,F-18E/Fs
and while that's my side question, my main question is, since you guys mentioned the J-11 is compable to the F-15, does that really means we can place J-11 as strong enough to become the mainstay of the PLAAF if China replaces everything under J-8M?
since the F-15 currently is the mainstay in several countries, even the US, that mean the F-15 is a premier frontline choice? and which one has better performance? F-16 vs F-15, and also if regards to being better candidate as mainstay?
i have a question
im a big fan of the F-15, but i wonder what position and respect does this plane gets in the modern world of other equally and more competitive fighters, including amongst F-14,F-16,F-18E/Fs
and while that's my side question, my main question is, since you guys mentioned the J-11 is compable to the F-15, does that really means we can place J-11 as strong enough to become the mainstay of the PLAAF if China replaces everything under J-8M?
since the F-15 currently is the mainstay in several countries, even the US, that mean the F-15 is a premier frontline choice? and which one has better performance? F-16 vs F-15, and also if regards to being better candidate as mainstay?
When it comes to thrust to weight ratios and kinetics, the F-15 is still competitive with anything with the rest of the world. Its the aerodynamics that's not. Starting from the F-16 and above, aircraft started to use either LERX or canards to form vortice layers during maneuvering at angles of attack. These vortices stabilize the aircraft, improve lift, allowing turns to go tighter and higher angles of attack is reached. It started appearing in the F-16, though the F-5 also uses it to a smaller degree, but it would take the MiG-29, the Su-27 and the F-18 Hornet family to truly master the phenomena. The next stage is a "variable" LERX which is what the canards also do with the various delta-canards, as well as the presence of such like in the Su-30MKI. A stage further is to use the entire plane's outline with an edge to manage these vortices. That's why when you look at the F-22 and the F-35, there is a kind of edge that goes all over the entire plane.
Although the F-15 sort of gloves in the area around the wing root, its not a true LERX, and the plane does not exploit the vortice phenomenon as well as other aircraft does. It has a hybrid FCS that's both electronic and mechanical, but its not true digital FBW like in other modern jets. For that matter, the F-15 also has a stable airframe, does not have relaxed stability (as in inherently pitch unstable) like in the F-16, which improves on maneuverability but requires digital FBW to manage.
Contrary to what people expect with the advancement of BVRAAMs, maneuverability remains crucial because it is what you need to set up the aircraft for the most optimal position to give the missile the best possible chances. Speed and height are also important, which the F-15 has in spades, but pointability is not in the same area as let's say, the F-18 Hornet.
Although the F-15 sort of gloves in the area around the wing root, its not a true LERX, and the plane does not exploit the vortice phenomenon as well as other aircraft does. It has a hybrid FCS that's both electronic and mechanical, but its not true digital FBW like in other modern jets. For that matter, the F-15 also has a stable airframe, does not have relaxed stability (as in inherently pitch unstable) like in the F-16, which improves on maneuverability but requires digital FBW to manage.
Contrary to what people expect with the advancement of BVRAAMs, maneuverability remains crucial because it is what you need to set up the aircraft for the most optimal position to give the missile the best possible chances. Speed and height are also important, which the F-15 has in spades, but pointability is not in the same area as let's say, the F-18 Hornet.
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looks like they are going to do an exercise every 2 years. They improved quite a bit from 2005 to 2007, wonder what 2009 will be like
BEIJING. Dec 10 (Interfax) - Russia and China will conduct joint
anti-terrorist exercises in 2009, Chinese Defense Minister Liang
Guanglie announced after talks with his Russian counterpart Anatoly
Serdyukov in Beijing on Wednesday.
"We agreed to conduct joint Chinese-Russian anti-terrorist
exercises that will take place next year," he said.
The further successful development of bilateral relations in
defense calls for "maintaining the dynamics of high-level contacts,
implementing existing projects of cooperation between the two armies,
continuing contacts in military training and studying the possibilities
of expanding military-technical cooperation," Liang said.
Liang praised the partnership and strategic cooperation between
Russia and China which were established thanks to "the wise decision of
the leaders of our states [and meet] the aspirations of our nations."
BEIJING. Dec 10 (Interfax) - Russia and China will conduct joint
anti-terrorist exercises in 2009, Chinese Defense Minister Liang
Guanglie announced after talks with his Russian counterpart Anatoly
Serdyukov in Beijing on Wednesday.
"We agreed to conduct joint Chinese-Russian anti-terrorist
exercises that will take place next year," he said.
The further successful development of bilateral relations in
defense calls for "maintaining the dynamics of high-level contacts,
implementing existing projects of cooperation between the two armies,
continuing contacts in military training and studying the possibilities
of expanding military-technical cooperation," Liang said.
Liang praised the partnership and strategic cooperation between
Russia and China which were established thanks to "the wise decision of
the leaders of our states [and meet] the aspirations of our nations."
I've got a question here on how broad chinese digital FCS act in modern fighters like J-10 / J-11B.
Crobato, you mentiond the FBW and stability / instability issue. Apperently in modern fighter aircraft you can just give a wish to the FCS in wich direction you want by moving the stick. The FCS then decides on if and how to bring you there. In an F-15 like aircraft with less comprehensive controlls, the pilot himself can bring the A/C very close to a controlled stall condition and "trick" an F-16 like plane whose FCS e.g. restricts pitch up to prevent a stall and puts it in front of the other guy by speeding up.
Then again, the superiorety in "normal condition" maneuvers of modern FBW A/C is probably the more deciding factor.
On the outline edge of an A/C to manage vortices: Wouldn't that be a step back again from the canards, since those endges are fixed and can't be adapted to specific flight regimes? I was always under the impression these lines on the F-22 / -35 where rather an RCS reduction meassure. Vortices production may very well be intendet. But I believed the efficiency was secondary to stealth here.
Finally, shooting BVRAAMs from a high energy state with a stand off detection capability(AESA) of even small targets, I think the eagle can perform well as a real punisher for years to come.
Actually with further Raptor production in doubt and the F-35 not an intentional air-air fighter, I wonder if there's further upgrade potential for the eagles. Only a rather small part of the fleet will actually get APG-62(V) 2 or even 3 radars, AFAIK.
That plus upgrading avionics and performing some RCS reduction meassures might be a contingency.
Crobato, you mentiond the FBW and stability / instability issue. Apperently in modern fighter aircraft you can just give a wish to the FCS in wich direction you want by moving the stick. The FCS then decides on if and how to bring you there. In an F-15 like aircraft with less comprehensive controlls, the pilot himself can bring the A/C very close to a controlled stall condition and "trick" an F-16 like plane whose FCS e.g. restricts pitch up to prevent a stall and puts it in front of the other guy by speeding up.
Then again, the superiorety in "normal condition" maneuvers of modern FBW A/C is probably the more deciding factor.
On the outline edge of an A/C to manage vortices: Wouldn't that be a step back again from the canards, since those endges are fixed and can't be adapted to specific flight regimes? I was always under the impression these lines on the F-22 / -35 where rather an RCS reduction meassure. Vortices production may very well be intendet. But I believed the efficiency was secondary to stealth here.
Finally, shooting BVRAAMs from a high energy state with a stand off detection capability(AESA) of even small targets, I think the eagle can perform well as a real punisher for years to come.
Actually with further Raptor production in doubt and the F-35 not an intentional air-air fighter, I wonder if there's further upgrade potential for the eagles. Only a rather small part of the fleet will actually get APG-62(V) 2 or even 3 radars, AFAIK.
That plus upgrading avionics and performing some RCS reduction meassures might be a contingency.
In the case of the F-16, the pilot can rely less on feel. He can pull as hard on the stick as he wants and not stall. A common mistake with pilots is to pull too hard on the stick, tightening the turn too much, causing the speed to rapidly drop, create high G forces to black you out, or force you into a stall. Sometimes all three.
By the way, I did point out before that the F-15 uses a hybrid mechanical-electronic flight control and input system. Not as an advanced as a digital FBW, but getting there.
Those lines allow for more complex vortice system to form all over the aircraft from the nose to the wings, and not just in the wing roots. Vortice production is a very intended design feature, much like stealth, but in the case of the stealth, you should look more at the angles of the fuselage, as opposed to that edge. No such thing as accidental benefits here. If you do a vortice wrong, where under circumstances, it would delaminate from the aircraft surface or burst into turbulence at the wrong time and place, it creates dangerous turbulence. That's why vortice creation and management has to be very well planned from the start with extensive testing in wind tunnels.
Which is true. Even if the Eagle isn't as maneuverable as some of its later competitors, it always has the option to dash out and run.
I can't think of any other possible upgrades except stronger engines and better radars. The F-15 can be more potent given the 32,000lb thrust engines PW and GE has introduced, plus the AESA radars.
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