China's Defense/Military Breaking News Thread

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Ironhide

Ironhide

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ACuriousPLAFan said:
Discussion continued in a more appropriate thread.



I'm late to this short party, but only for a tiny while.

While this "leak" may be yet another ploy to fray Beijing-Moscow relations in the backdrop of the Russo-Ukraine war - Nobody should be surprised if the leaks (or anything which happens to be similar/resembling in the future) have any credibility or accuracy.

We can be idealists at times, but we must be realists all the time.

Remember that Beijing and Moscow were at each others' throats for months in 1969, and Moscow even contemplated nuking China if the skirmishes at Dongbei erupted into an all-out war between the two red giants. It wasn't until the beginning of the 1990s when both sides started to warm their bilateral relations.

And we haven't even gone into the multiple conflagrations that both Tsarist Russia and USSR had with Qing China and the ROC in the past 100+ years.

While China and Russia are back-to-back with one another today, it would be wrong to assume that this situation is set in stone until the end of time, especially considering how both Russia and China got their massive territories over the past hundred of years.

If anything, we should understand that Beijing certainly will have/already have wargamed and planned for any possibility of conflict or war with Russia (in terms of conventional war and also nuclear strikes against Russia), just as how Moscow would've done the same WRT any possibility of conflict or war with China. We just don't see them surfacing in the public discourse, mostly due to the present geopolitical and political-economic-societal developments and realities between both countries.

One golden rule - There are neither eternal friends nor eternal enemies, only eternal interests.
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Finally someone who gets it
In the other thread, was quite surprised how some reacted as IF Russia China were always like this
The fact is Outer Manchuria is ancient Chinese land temporarily occupied by Non-Chinese
"Moscow even contemplated nuking China" How can people forget this is beyond me
 
tankphobia

tankphobia

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Ironhide said:
Finally someone who gets it
In the other thread, was quite surprised how some reacted as IF Russia China were always like this
The fact is Outer Manchuria is ancient Chinese land temporarily occupied by Non-Chinese
"Moscow even contemplated nuking China" How can people forget this is beyond me
Click to expand...
Exactly, China and Russia aren't allies by nature/culture. Its really only because of the pressure from the West. The geopolitical goals of the two countries do not always align and even sometimes go into conflict, in the case of competing influence in central Asia.

A warming of China-US relationship will lead to a similar cooling of relationship between China-Russia, its the simple nature of balance of power.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

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ACuriousPLAFan said:
Discussion continued in a more appropriate thread.



I'm late to this short party, but only for a tiny while.

While this "leak" may be yet another ploy to fray Beijing-Moscow relations in the backdrop of the Russo-Ukraine war - Nobody should be surprised if the leaks (or anything which happens to be similar/resembling in the future) have any credibility or accuracy.

We can be idealists at times, but we must be realists at all times.

Remember that Beijing and Moscow were at each others' throats for months in 1969, and Moscow even contemplated nuking China if the skirmishes at Dongbei erupted into an all-out war between the two red giants. It wasn't until the beginning of the 1990s when both sides started to warm their bilateral relations.

And we haven't even gone into the multiple conflagrations that both Tsarist Russia and USSR had with Qing China and the ROC in the past 100+ years.

While China and Russia are back-to-back with one another today, it would be wrong to assume that this situation is set in stone until the end of time, especially considering how both Russia and China got their massive territories over the past hundred of years.

If anything, we should understand that Beijing certainly will have/already have wargamed and planned for any possibility of conflict or war with Russia (in terms of conventional war and also nuclear strikes against Russia), just as how Moscow would've done the same WRT any possibility of conflict or war with China. We just don't see them surfacing in the public discourse, mostly due to the present geopolitical and political-economic-societal developments and realities between both countries.

One golden rule - There are neither eternal friends nor eternal enemies, only eternal interests.
Click to expand...
Russia is at a huge disadvantage though so they won't try anything offensive but Siberia is also nearly worthless for China and defensively strong so China shouldn't try anything either.

19th and 20th century were unique times where industrialization gave Europeans a gigantic advantage. Even Poland had domestic tanks and bomber planes, even Czechoslovakia had tanks and artillery comparable to entire ROC. Whites were 30% of global population in 1920. So you can't take that era of history as a comparison for today.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

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tankphobia said:
Exactly, China and Russia aren't allies by nature/culture. Its really only because of the pressure from the West. The geopolitical goals of the two countries do not always align and even sometimes go into conflict, in the case of competing influence in central Asia.

A warming of China-US relationship will lead to a similar cooling of relationship between China-Russia, its the simple nature of balance of power.
Click to expand...
Russia is basically the modern day Mongolia. They're a northern empire inhabiting the wastelands beyond the Gobi with a extractive economy and heavy emphasis on military just like Mongolia. Mongolia was part of the Sinosphere as early as 100 BC as the Xiongnu.

There have always been conflicts with the Mongols but the northern empires will always be there too. China has never been able to completely get rid of them for thousands of years, only occasionally subjugate them, just like they have never been able to destroy China, only occasional subjugation.
 
G

gelgoog

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We already discussed these supposed leaked Russian plans. Every single country has contingency plans to attack basically every neighbour. I am sure China also has similar contingency plans to invade Russia, Vietnam, etc.
If Russia wanted to invade China or attack it in any way, why is it that they station all the major ground forces on the European side. And this was also true a decade ago before the Ukrainian conflict.

As for the conflict between Russia and China in the past meaning there must be conflict in the future, that is just plain bullshit. The US invaded Canada in the XIXth century, and they invaded Mexico several times taking huge chunks of territory out of them. And yet they have fairly good relations today.
 
O

Overbom

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Maikeru said:
FT article on China military spending:

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Interesting quote right at the end.
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Rest of the article was basically throwing mud at China that they have to resort to this because the PLA couldn't get the required military budget to fulfill its needs <clown emoji>

Seems that China is gearing up:
We are now seeing a really extensive expansion of their defence industrial base,” said Lee of Air University. “Beyond the 14th Five Year plan we should expect really, really high volumes of low-cost missiles and low-cost other systems into the future.”
Click to expand...
 
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