China's arms-exports in general

Well, I came across this topic when reading through the post of China supplying Iran. Haven't found something similar here. I know there are various threads about specific systems China sales, but I'd like to have a general overview.

Now to begin: The sales of arms from China seems to increase lately. In all dimensions; law-enforcement equipment, small arms and advanced systems.
According to China is the only major arms exporter not sticking to any international agreement on criteria for arms exports. And chinese arms can to be found in several non-stable regions where human rights are not fully observed.
In 2002 China updated rules for arms export set in 1997, though transparency is not really given. In 1997 China stoped reporting data on exports to the UN. In it's urgent need for raw material China seems to be willing to buy them with arms.For 2002 China is said to have saled small arms worth at least $100m.
Lot's of chinese small arms are still found in Africa. And with it's growing influence, they now reach South America. Some of todays major recipients of chinese arms are Sudan, Burma, Nepal, Iran(?) ...
In the last year China was said to be the right one if you need cheap and simple weapons. That obviously changes lately now one can also get cheap and somewhat sophisticated weapons.

What are other less/really importaned chinese exports ?

yeah, they do have many exports that do not seem to get reported on the news. For example, they recently gave a bunch of J-7G to North Korea. I doubt very many people know about it.

Some new numbers: The type 59/69 Tank evolved from the russian T-54 was China's first armored vehicle exported in great numbers. Bangladesh (80), Iran (200), Myanmar (60), Pakistan (2,500), Thailand (50), and Zimbabwe (10). Iraq recieved them as well and upgraded them until the second ('91) Gulf war. But now they're gone.

I know Pakistan is a big customer with co-development of aircraft and tanks. It's a strategic alliance with Pakistan to act as a counterwieght to India. Are there any other countries that are arms customers and strategic allies as well?

China doesnt have a lot of Strategic allies, mainly because thos allies tend to draw you into conflicts you dont care about w/o providing much in return. NK is a very good example of such an 'ally'. Russia can be considered a strategic ally, and the PLA buys most of its foregin hardware from Russia. China's arms export market include Egypt, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Myammar, Zimbabwe, Sudan, and Iraq. Iran used to be a customer but i think China has stopped selling weapons to Iran becuz of American Pressure. But none of the countries on the list can be called 'allies' in the same sense as alliances btw America and Europe or Japan. China's weapons export are strictly buisness, they dont really care about who is buying, i am sure if the US needs a emergency shipment of assult rilfle for some bizzare reason, China would be happy to be the supplier.

I imagine the North Korean experience would be enough for a country to swear off strategic alliances permanently.

I agree that Russia is a strategic partner at this point because it is a good source of cheap relatively modern equipment. And oil come to think of it. The reliance on Russian tech will only last as long as it takes for the Chinese to reverse engineer the products they have purchased.

I know Kuwait bought a batch of 155mm SP howitzers from China. Does anyone know if Kuwait is happy with the product? The deal is a little outside the norm for Chinese weapons sales. I don't think the Chinese army even uses the system.

rrrtx said:

I imagine the North Korean experience would be enough for a country to swear off strategic alliances permanently.

I agree that Russia is a strategic partner at this point because it is a good source of cheap relatively modern equipment. And oil come to think of it. The reliance on Russian tech will only last as long as it takes for the Chinese to reverse engineer the products they have purchased.

I know Kuwait bought a batch of 155mm SP howitzers from China. Does anyone know if Kuwait is happy with the product? The deal is a little outside the norm for Chinese weapons sales. I don't think the Chinese army even uses the system.

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China's technology level is advancing in a rapid pace, and soon the reliance on Russian equipment will soon totally disappear. As China will surpasss the Russia's technology and soon be a near level to the US in the future. Russia's mothering of equipment to China is fading as China is growing up.

Kuwait appears to have liked them. Gotta if they bought a 2nd bunch. China appeared to have acquired a number of PLZs also(PLA colours). (Thank god, the Type 83s suck.)

Chengdu J-10 said:

China's technology level is advancing in a rapid pace, and soon the reliance on Russian equipment will soon totally disappear. As China will surpasss the Russia's technology and soon be a near level to the US in the future. Russia's mothering of equipment to China is fading as China is growing up.

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What is your opinion on how long it will take to reach parity with the US?

My personal feeling is that they are still very heavily dependant on purchased/reverse engineered systems. They have a good technological baseline with what they have in service now. But is it enough to develop the next generation of stuff?

sumdud said:

Kuwait appears to have liked them. Gotta if they bought a 2nd bunch. China appeared to have acquired a number of PLZs also(PLA colours). (Thank god, the Type 83s suck.)

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I didn't know they bought a second batch or that the PLA picked some up as well.

How widespread is use of 155mm tubes in PLA service? I viewed the ubiquity of 152mm pieces as an obstacle to adoption of modern 155mm units.

rrrtx said:

What is your opinion on how long it will take to reach parity with the US?

My personal feeling is that they are still very heavily dependant on purchased/reverse engineered systems. They have a good technological baseline with what they have in service now. But is it enough to develop the next generation of stuff?

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That might take decades. My understanding is that while the top Chinese engineering schools have world class undergraduate programs, their post graduate programs are lacking compared to developed nations. Tsinghua just can't produce the same level of PhDs and research as Caltech or MIT, and it'll take a long time to catch up. It'll be a while before China can lead in innovation.