China miliary plane design

Indianfighter

Junior Member
crobato said:
The MiG-29 has LERXes so the Russians understood the first part of this lesson. But it would take the Su-27 before the Russians complete the second part. The Chinese certainly understood this concept of vortice generation but went about it in another way. This was how the double delta wing for the J-7E was developed. But to take it beyond double delta and LERXes, you would need a variable and controllable surface that would serve as the vortice generator. And this led to the canard, and to the J-10.
The above statement is inaccurate. Upon reference to the schematic of the J-8-II aircraft posted by me earlier, the wing of the J-8-II is not a compound (or in other terms, double) delta. LEX are also not visible.
The J-8 is a cropped delta-wing with tail.

The specifications of the J-8 and FC-1 are similar, and according to FAS.org and globalsecurity.com, the manoueverability of the J-8 at low altitudes is equivalent to the F-16C and F-18.
Thus, the reasons for developing the FC-1 (which is a similar fighter aircraft), are unclear.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Indianfighter said:
The above statement is inaccurate. Upon reference to the schematic of the J-8-II aircraft posted by me earlier, the wing of the J-8-II is not a compound (or in other terms, double) delta. LEX are also not visible.
The J-8 is a cropped delta-wing with tail.

The specifications of the J-8 and FC-1 are similar, and according to FAS.org and globalsecurity.com, the manoueverability of the J-8 at low altitudes is equivalent to the F-16C and F-18.
Thus, the reasons for developing the FC-1 (which is a similar fighter aircraft), are unclear.

Sorry, but taking FAS as a serious source is stupid and Your conclusion is ridiculous. :rofl: Only because they are “similar” fighter – in what ??

Size? = wrong,
Capability? = wrong
Technological basis or concept? = wrong
Foreseen mission? = wrong

They are both as similar as to compare an old Mercedes Benz 300 with a current SLK !

So to question the FC-1’s development only because they are fighter …. Nothing more to add ! :mad: *****************We are friendly people.:)

Cheers, Deino ;)
 
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Indianfighter

Junior Member
eecsmaster said:
Indianfighter, Crobato was talking about the J-7e/g, not the J-8.
Thank you for bringing the above point to my attention. I admit my mistake in assuming that the aircraft that was being discussed by crobato was the J-8, since most posts above his had discussion about the J-8. I read his post hastily and thus gave an incorrect response.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Indianfighter said:
Thank you for bringing the above point to my attention. I admit my mistake in assuming that the aircraft that was being discussed by crobato was the J-8, since most posts above his had discussion about the J-8. I read his post hastily and thus gave an incorrect response.

Sorry, … then I have to apologise form y harsh words !

Deino :eek:
 

sumdud

Senior Member
VIP Professional
If I am correct, (I like planes, but I am still in high school really.) the delta wing, while having degraded the J-7 and J-8's manuverability, had actually helped the J-10 pitch?

The part about J-8 now being manuverable at low-alt is overexaggerated. (I think they were referring to the J-8IIM, which had small canards and a shorter body.)
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
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If I am correct, (I like planes, but I am still in high school really.) the delta wing, while having degraded the J-7 and J-8's manuverability, had actually helped the J-10 pitch?

Someone else can propaply help you more but at least the case with tailess delta designs, mostly older Mirages was that the adoption of Fly-By-Wire really gave the best performance of delta wings. Perhaps Crobato or someone else can tell you more why it is so...
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
sumdud said:
If I am correct, (I like planes, but I am still in high school really.) the delta wing, while having degraded the J-7 and J-8's manuverability, had actually helped the J-10 pitch?

That's because of the J-10's canards.

Pure delta is not as desirable as a modified delta---canard delta, double delta, cranked delta...
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Gollevainen said:
Someone else can propaply help you more but at least the case with tailess delta designs, mostly older Mirages was that the adoption of Fly-By-Wire really gave the best performance of delta wings. Perhaps Crobato or someone else can tell you more why it is so...

Tailless delta was something the US and the Russians abandoned early. Problem with a tailless delta is that you have two wing control surfaces doubling as ailerons (roll control) and elevators (pitch control).

FBW can only do so far with delta designs. The best it can do is to prevent the pilot from pulling the plane into an angle of attack that is too excessive, keeping the AoA at the edge of threshold. Beyond that, the plane would lose both speed and lift. Even with experience, the pilot cannot not mentally compute everytime for all the speed, altitude and other factors, especially during combat.

The Mirage 2000 has an unstable profile and low wing loading which give it good instantaneous turn ability, but not sustained turning ability. Once you go turning deeper into a circle or continue to maneuver after successive maneuvers, the plane easily loses bleeds speed. Again that is due to the unassisted delta wings. This is something rectified with canards, double delta or cranked delta designs. The Mirage 2000 does have variable camber (leading edge automatic slats) in the front of the wings, which improves lift at lower speeds and reduces edge wise bleed of the airflow. So the effects are somewhat offset. Still nothing beats vortice generation flowing on top of the wings, which you can have with a canard, LERX or double delta.
 
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