China helping Iran to upgrade F-4 Phantoms

hardware

Banned Idiot
by DAVID AXE

If Iran and the U.S. ever come to blows over Tehran’s nuclear program, U.S. warplanes could face an Iranian aerial arsenal that, while old, has been heavily upgraded. China is helping Iran add new sensors and weapons to U.S.-built F-4 Phantoms that are nearly 50 years old.

The upgrades don’t mean the Vietnam War-vintage F-4s are equal to American F-15s, F-16s and F/A-18s — to say nothing of the stealthy F-22s. Nor should the U.S. underestimate Iran’s aerial capabilities. Enhancements can significantly boost the combat potential of older planes.

Since the 1979 Islamic revolution, arms embargoes and U.S. pressure on supplier nations have made it all but impossible for Tehran to acquire new foreign-made military aircraft. Only China has been willing to defy the embargoes.

Iran is reportedly building new copies of the Saeqeh fighter, a reverse-engineered version of the U.S. F-5. But most of the fleet — including Russian-built Su-24s and MiG-29s; Mirage F.1s from France; Chinese J-6s and F-7s; and F-4s, F-5s and F-14s acquired from the U.S. — is 1960s- and ’70s-vintage. The newest foreign fighters in Iranian service are former Iraqi planes flown to safety in Iran during the U.S.-led aerial onslaught in 1991.

Iran acquired 32 F-4Ds along with 180 F-4Es from the U.S. starting in 1970. (The F-4D carries only missiles and bombs; the later F-4E is fitted with a 20-millimeter gun.) Accidents and losses during the war with Iraq in the 1980s steadily reduced the Phantom force to just 10 F-4Ds and 18 F-4Es, according to Flight Global‘s 2013 warplane database; the U.S. embargo following the revolution led to a shortage of spares that curtailed flying hours for the surviving jets.

It wasn’t until the early 2000s that Tehran made serious investment in the F-4s, as detailed by Babak Taghvaee in the latest issue of Combat Aircraft magazine. The first step was to repair the planes’ existing systems. In March 2010 the state-owned Iranian Aircraft Industries began upgrade work on the first F-4D, replacing the wiring and, with the help of Chinese technicians, adding new Chinese-made radar, radios, flat-screen displays and moving map with embedded GPS.

The updated F-4D flew for the first time in February; testing of the new systems is ongoing. Further planned updates include a new Chinese Head-Up Display, radar warning receiver, chaff and flare dispensers and PL-7 infrared- and PL-12 radar-guided air-to-air missiles.

The enhanced F-4s are slated to remain in service until at least 2025.
 
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hardware

Banned Idiot
Re: China helping iran to upgrade F-4 aircraft

for year SAC trying to push there F-8T,but no taker, likely her avionic system may end up in iranian F-4 aircraft.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Re: China helping iran to upgrade F-4 aircraft

Tell you one thing if Iranian revolution never happened these guys would be a mini-super by now no doubt they would have been partners in the JSF etc

They had 140 CH-46 Chinnoks on order and 140 F16s with a follow up order of 160 more to total 300 x F16 all in the late 1970s a fleet which Israel only matched 30 years later

Any US attack on the Soviet Union would have been a joint Iranian- American attack which then later turned into a Turkish-American attack

Those F16 then ended up going to Israel and Pakistan and it is reported that some of the F16 ground equipment which Shah received in the late 1978 ended up being transfered to Pakistan in 1982

1979 was a year which many forget changed the history of the region, Soviets came to Afghanistan which can be related to the current issues in the region including 9/11 and Iranian revolution which changed the middle east from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranean

Anyhow way of topic my bad!
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Re: China helping iran to upgrade F-4 aircraft

Tell you one thing if Iranian revolution never happened these guys would be a mini-super by now no doubt they would have been partners in the JSF etc

They had 140 CH-46 Chinnoks on order and 140 F16s with a follow up order of 160 more to total 300 x F16 all in the late 1970s a fleet which Israel only matched 30 years later

Any US attack on the Soviet Union would have been a joint Iranian- American attack which then later turned into a Turkish-American attack

Those F16 then ended up going to Israel and Pakistan and it is reported that some of the F16 ground equipment which Shah received in the late 1978 ended up being transfered to Pakistan in 1982

1979 was a year which many forget changed the history of the region, Soviets came to Afghanistan which can be related to the current issues in the region including 9/11 and Iranian revolution which changed the middle east from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranean

Anyhow way of topic my bad!

Its not what you have that makes you a superpower.

Egypt has some pretty impressive hardware today, yet are they considered a key or pivotal power in the ME?

An American puppeted Iran would likely only join the list of US client states around the world that have impressive hardware but no real independent foreign or domestic policy, and all their power and strength would only serve to advance American interests, often at the expense of their own self interest.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: China helping iran to upgrade F-4 aircraft

The hodgepodge of mixing technologies must make those Iranian birds a real b&%$# to wire. I mean the American bits the Russia parts the Chinese components... Every Allie of the week mixed together with what Iranian parts they also have. Its a wonder they still fly.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Re: China helping iran to upgrade F-4 aircraft

The hodgepodge of mixing technologies must make those Iranian birds a real b&%$# to wire. I mean the American bits the Russia parts the Chinese components... Every Allie of the week mixed together with what Iranian parts they also have. Its a wonder they still fly.

Might be tough... but not entirely impossible... that is the beauty of modulars system.

However, as usual... I take all these with a large jug of salt, unless it was officially being announced by both parties. Up till now, it was only bits and pieces from online news report which like to reference to 'some' experts.
 

montyp165

Senior Member
Re: China helping iran to upgrade F-4 aircraft

The hodgepodge of mixing technologies must make those Iranian birds a real b&%$# to wire. I mean the American bits the Russia parts the Chinese components... Every Allie of the week mixed together with what Iranian parts they also have. Its a wonder they still fly.

Chinese would be in a better position than most to help integrate such disparate systems from their own experiences during the cold war days.
 

kyuryu

Junior Member
Re: China helping iran to upgrade F-4 aircraft

Might be tough... but not entirely impossible... that is the beauty of modulars system.

However, as usual... I take all these with a large jug of salt, unless it was officially being announced by both parties. Up till now, it was only bits and pieces from online news report which like to reference to 'some' experts.

On one hand I agree, independent third party verification is always ideal, but given this work is alleged to be for a country under UN sanctions, it's highly unlikely that either China or Iran will come out and publicly confirm that this is the case...
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Re: China helping iran to upgrade F-4 aircraft

In the meantime, China is left to try and prove a negative. Such is the 'beauty' of starting such rumours, even if you haven't got a shred of proof, it would be all but impossible for those accused to convince everyone that they are innocent.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Re: China helping iran to upgrade F-4 aircraft

On one hand I agree, independent third party verification is always ideal, but given this work is alleged to be for a country under UN sanctions, it's highly unlikely that either China or Iran will come out and publicly confirm that this is the case...

I would have to disagree with you here. Firstly... how does these so call 'expert' get to know of China's involvement or any other involvement of something that had already been sanctioned by the UN, do they have spies in China and Iran and all the rogue countries? Secondly, if these so-call experts could have those information, wouldn't UN actually have these information too? Unless UN, US and all other UN nations are all nothing but a big bunch of money wasters, that are incompetent in gathering information. If UN already had the information, why didn't UN issue official protest against this transaction?

Somehow all these don't fly.
 
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