China has already attain the world second largest AirForce???

PanAsian said:

If only PLA aircraft that are combat effective against latest generation frontline aircraft are counted then I am sure China's ranking falls by at least a dozen places or more. Sounds like more 'China threat' mongering to me, that or fanboy chest thumping, both undeserved.

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So you think China combat effective air force is at least in numbers ranked 13+ ?

Lets go through some numbers of the PLAAF. Flankers (J-11, Su-27, Su-30) ~412, JH-7/A ~194, J-10 ~210

So just 4th generation ~816, take out the JH-7/A if you want and we still have ~622. Most of the original J-11 received upgrades. Now we add onto the ~216 J-8, nearly all upgraded to allow them to fire BVRAAM, we have ~216 capable of delivering BVRAAM and then getting out of there.

These numbers outnumber Russia's 4th generation, add to that we know that Russia has after collapse suffered budget cuts, small budget allocation, and major corruption. Most of the Flankers and Migs are still stuck with technology they had when Soviet Union was in existence.

German airforce Tornado ~177, Eurofighter ~49

RAF Tornado ~136, Eurofighter ~71

JASDF F-2 ~77, F-15 ~202

So you are still so sure, that it is at least ranked 12+ or more????

At the moment PLAAF combat aircraft consist nearly 50% of 4th generation.

^I'm not sure PLAAF (and even with PLANAF) have quite that many flankers.

and can you give a source or indication where you got your numbers? The only place I've been able to get a concise summary of PLAAF numbers is wikipedia... and they list the PLAAF as only having 60 JH-7As, which just doesn't sound right at all.

Also, maybe we could merge with this similar thread? http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air-force/how-many-fighters-does-china-have-4440.html

Bltizo said:

^I'm not sure PLAAF (and even with PLANAF) have quite that many flankers.

and can you give a source or indication where you got your numbers? The only place I've been able to get a concise summary of PLAAF numbers is wikipedia... and they list the PLAAF as only having 60 JH-7As, which just doesn't sound right at all.

Also, maybe we could merge with this similar thread? http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air-force/how-many-fighters-does-china-have-4440.html

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Sources, Pictures (Serial Number system), Google Earth, Scramble, CCTV footage (Serial Number system)

HKSDU said:

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Sources, Pictures (Serial Number system), Google Earth, Scramble, CCTV footage (Serial Number system)

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this work is really impressive

Quantity is one thing. Quality is another.

I'm not too worried about the technology part (when China's got J-11B, J-10B, J-15 in testing, J-20, and a whole bunch of other fighters in development).

But China severely lacks in training and in support aircraft. The previous air combat for PLAAF was in the 1950s, and since then the veterans have all been retired, leaving PLAAF pilots no real link to combat experience. Chinese pilots also supposedly do not log a significant amount of flight hours. As proven in the 1965 war, pilots in superior aircraft can be shot down by superior pilots in inferior aircraft.

Then, there's the lack of power projection. One carrier (a training carrier, by the way) does not mean much in terms of the PLAAF's capabilities to send its fighters out long range. China's H-6U tankers badly need replacing, and a couple of Russian-bought Il-78s aren't going to do that. China will take time to develop their own tankers. The US has over 100 bases abroad, most of them having the ability to carry aircraft. China has zero.

China also lacks transports, bombers, and EW/AEW/SIGINT aircraft. In the modern day and age, electronics play a huge role in air combat, and China's current stockpile of such aircraft simply isn't enough. China may have a lot of models in testing, but they aren't deployed in big numbers yet.

Most of people analyze the PLAAF by their combat aircraft only. That is a huge mistake. These combat aircraft can not function without the other support aircraft, the area in which China is severely behind the US.

PanAsian said:

If only PLA aircraft that are combat effective against latest generation frontline aircraft are counted then I am sure China's ranking falls by at least a dozen places or more. Sounds like more 'China threat' mongering to me, that or fanboy chest thumping, both undeserved.

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---In service---

Let's see, 50 J-11B, 200+ J-10A, 6+ J-10B.

The F-15C, Eurofighter, Rafale-M would fall in the league of the J-11B. The F-16 Block 52 and Gripen would fall in the J-10A league. The Super Hornet, F-16 Block 60 and Eurofighter F3 would fall in the category of J-10B.

China would have over 250 aircraft (with more produced each year) comparable to the latest 4-4.5th generation fighters.

I'm pretty sure that's higher than a rank of a dozen.

--- In development ---

J-16 (flight test 2011-2012): would be in the league of F-15SE, MiG-35
J-18: would be in the league of the F-35
J-XX (flight test 2011-2012): would be in the league of the F-22 and T-50
J-2X: would be in the league of the F-35 and Mikoyan LMFS
JH-7B (flight test 2011-2012): would be in the league of the F-15SE
J-20 (in flight): would be in the league of the F-22 and T-50

I believe the PLAAF average about 140-160 hours or so a year? The USAF is more ~200, so the PLAAF is actually not that far behind. Also note PLAAF pilots would likely more focus in single roles rather than juggling A2A and A2G into their hours.

I agree China lacks transports and tankers, but they do not necessarily have a need for a dedicated bomber like the USAF, and they have H-6K for that.

The PLAAF actually has a good AEW&C and SIGINT/EW force. 4 KJ-2000s and at least 6 KJ-200s in service with PLAAF and PLANAF. They have multiple Y-8s for SIGINT and EW as well.
via huitong:
7 Y-8Gs for long range ECM
4 Y-8X for maritime surveillance and possible ELINT
4 Y-8J for lower capability AEW (the one with skymaster radar)
at least 4 Y-8CB for ECM
4 Y-8JB for ELINT
3 Y-8T for C3I
At least 2 Y-8XZ for psych ops or EW
Another new Y-8 category three platform with mysterious antennaes suggesting some kidn of EW role too.

Then there's the Z-8, Ka-31, the Y-7 AEW&C as future additions to the AEW&C fleet, as well as multiple Tupolev-154 for EW, ELINT and possibly SAR mapping. And of course there are smaller learjets with similar payloads too.

The PLAAF is actually quite well endowed in their EW force.