China Geopolitical News Thread

[Brumby]

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

I and Others have already pointed out the flaws in the poll. In your defense all you can say is that its not flawed. Its obvious who the irrational one is.

Unfortunately whether it is flawed is not by another poll on this forum. You have to make the case.

 

[Brumby]

From 1841 to 1979, all Hong Kong governors were Calkacians and sent by the Majesty of the Great Britain. They did not do a thing.

That is a false equivalence. Women did not received the vote on the same terms as men in Britain until 1928. Society evolved over time.

The political situation in HK today is a result of post 1997. Any judgement and argument over such matters should relate to the Basic Law that was put in place to deal with this type of political landscape.

 

[Blackstone]

From 1841 to 1979, all Hong Kong governors were Calkacians and sent by the Majesty of the Great Britain. They did not do a thing.

There's no question the English treated HK residence as second-class British subjects, and that line came from the Brits themselves. An English official said, on the eve of British retreat from HK, the way they (English overlords) treated Hong Kong people was shameful. It only took the British 99 years to figure that out, nevertheless, a small bit of credit is due for 'getting it' in the end.

 

[mr.bean]

There's no question the English treated HK residence as second-class British subjects, and that line came from the Brits themselves. An English official said, on the eve of British retreat from HK, the way they (English overlords) treated Hong Kong people was shameful. It only took the British 99 years to figure that out, nevertheless, a small bit of credit is due for 'getting it' in the end.

they didn't really get it in the end, they are colonists they would have wanted to rule hong kong for another hundred years if they could but their time was up, they had to fold up their flag and leave.

 

[nameless]

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Unfortunately whether it is flawed is not by another poll on this forum. You have to make the case.

You made the assumptions, you have to prove it based on unbiased facts not me.

 

[Blackstone]

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

I and Others have already pointed out the flaws in the poll. In your defense all you can say is that its not flawed. Its obvious who the irrational one is.

Alright, let's put it to the rational test.

My claims are:
1) Polls, by its very nature, are not perfect, and anyone can claim "flaws" in every single national and international poll ever taken and ever will be taken. However, credible poll agencies (and Pew is one of the best) do well in showing trends (likes/dislikes, happy/unhappy, right way/wrong way), and the specific poll we're arguing about does that well enough
2) The poll in question showed many of China's neighbors are concerned with her increasing power and willingness to use it
3) The same poll suggested China's neighbors are generally more positive about the US than China, and want continued US involvement in the region

My take of the polling data is the US has a bright future in Asia, because China's many nervous neighbors want the US around to constrain and balance an evermore powerful and restless Middle Kingdom. Furthermore, should China try and push the US out of Asia, she will see resistance not only from the US (we are a Pacific nation after all), but from most of her nervous neighbors. My final claim is China's neighbors are rightly nervous and shouldn't trust her sweet words of non-hegemonic intentions. That's why they're smart to hedge against China.

 

[Blackstone]

they didn't really get it in the end, they are colonists they would have wanted to rule hong kong for another hundred years if they could but their time was up, they had to fold up their flag and leave.

You're right, some (most?) British didn't get it, but clearly some did get it and made public statements to the effect. There's no question Britain left, not out of the goodness of their hearts, but because China has grown too powerful, and Britain couldn't keep Hong Kong even if it wanted to. China isn't Argentina, and Margaret Thatcher had no delusions about it.

 

[Blackstone]

That is a false equivalence. Women did not received the vote on the same terms as men in Britain until 1928. Society evolved over time.

The political situation in HK today is a result of post 1997. Any judgement and argument over such matters should relate to the Basic Law that was put in place to deal with this type of political landscape.

I'd be far less skeptical about British actions, had they showed even a modicum of human decency for their Hong Kong "subjects" during the century of their rule. No thoughts of democratic governance was ever seriously entertained for almost a century, but we're suppose to believe the Queen generously granted democracy to her loving subjects out of the goodness of her heart? Yeah right, and the Pope is Jewish too. In my view, Britain tossed a hand grenade in China's lap while being evicted from stolen land. It was nothing less than a geopolitical stab in the back.

 

[broadsword]

In my view, Britain tossed a hand grenade in China's lap while being evicted from stolen land.

They were not evicted. The lease, if you will, expired.

 

[nameless]

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Alright, let's put it to the rational test.

My claims are:
1) Polls, by its very nature, are not perfect, and anyone can claim "flaws" in every single national and international poll ever taken and ever will be taken. However, credible poll agencies (and Pew is one of the best) do well in showing trends (likes/dislikes, happy/unhappy, right way/wrong way), and the specific poll we're arguing about does that well enough
2) The poll in question showed many of China's neighbors are concerned with her increasing power and willingness to use it
3) The same poll suggested China's neighbors are generally more positive about the US than China, and want continued US involvement in the region

My take of the polling data is the US has a bright future in Asia, because China's many nervous neighbors want the US around to constrain and balance an evermore powerful and restless Middle Kingdom. Furthermore, should China try and push the US out of Asia, she will see resistance not only from the US (we are a Pacific nation after all), but from most of her nervous neighbors. My final claim is China's neighbors are rightly nervous and shouldn't trust her sweet words of non-hegemonic intentions. That's why they're smart to hedge against China.

1. This is what I was referring to as being poon simply because it is perceived to be credible. it does not show a trend because that would include comparison to a previous poll.

2. The poll specifically said ASIA not China's neighbors. This is very misleading. It also does not include many of China's other neighbors such as Russia, central Asian States, Laos, NK etc. It did not say anything about concern of China's rise and willing to use power only that disputes could result in conflict which is even a concern to China itself which is obvious and a no brainer. Only 3 of those 11 poll view China as the greatest threat, which just happens to be Vietnam, Philippines and Japan. 4 out of 11 including China saw Us as the greatest threat. Another 4 for others.

3. Most of these countries are traditional US allies so the ally part is not surprising. Again there is no trend to compare it to any previous poll.

The most you can get from the poll is that China has bad relations with those 3 countries that it has disputes with. And that traditional American allies of those polled are still allies. Lastly there is only one country with hegemonic ambitions for the world and its not China.