China Flanker Thread III (land based, exclude J-15)

leonzzzz

New Member
Registered Member
Just to set the stage: According to Yankee, this PLAAF pilot was a low-profile Lieutenant Colonel with no command responsibilities (so rank > responsibility). He wasn’t eager to participate in Golden Helmet competitions, excuses like, “It’s boring to fight against our own.” So while his colleagues were busy competing, he had his free time honing skills in propaganda art—excelling at blackboard drawings. Here’s a school-level example if you don't know what that is:
1758937970126.png

Internally everyone thought he'd be going more to a political officer route. So you have the image of this sort of odd/untraditional PLAAF officer personality.

Week of Jan 28th 2022:
Normally, PLAAF engagement rules included strict limitations on posture, missile lock, aggressiveness, etc. to avoid misunderstandings or escalation. But these restrictions were lifted after the USN was found to be conducting provocative missions near the Paracel (Xisha) Islands during the Winter Olympics, a period when both sides had a tacit understanding that aggressive actions should be avoided.

So this same PLAAF pilot, flying a J-11A, was dispatched to intercept an F-35C in the area, and a mock dogfight ensued. They did not explicitly share how the F-35C was initially detected.

Ayi then visually illustrated the encounter—likely based on gun camera footage he watched himself. While being pursued by the J-11A, the F-35C suddenly lost a lot of speed as it attempted a scissor maneuver to shake off its tail. Its flight control software appeared to disrupt the maneuver, resulting in an awkward half hammerhead turn. Ayi described the motion as “twitching sideways with nose up.” This brought the two aircraft within three kilometers of each other—well inside the no-escape zone of the R-73 missile. Yankee said “If two R-73s had been fired, it would have been a guaranteed kill,”. The dog fight ended with the F-35C pilot embarrassed and shaken.

Immediately afterward (yes this same flight mission) , the F-35C pilot attempted a “Sierra Hotel Break” landing—reportedly to “boost morale,” according to that 36 page USN reports. The attempt failed, and the aircraft crashed on the deck of the USS Carl Vinson before sliding into the sea on the port side. Yankee mentioned that a high-altitude PLA surveillance aircraft observed the impact blast in real time and relayed the news directly to the base, with base personnel laughing their asses off in the com channel.

One Week later:
The U.S. Navy sent a clean Super Hornet (with no external stores except two AIM-9Xs) to reclaim the advantage. The same PLAAF pilot responded. While the dogfight may have ended in a draw, the Super Hornet boltered on its first landing attempt, requiring a touch-and-go before finally landing on the second try. So you can tell also somewhat shaken.

What's the evidence that the Flanker spooked the F-35 into the crash?
The evidence would be the gun cam footage that was shared in a PLA internal viewing, and the fact that the crash happened during the same flight mission as the dogfight.

This is truly a wild story and the real evidence for us minions is Yankee and Ayi's story. But they do have a very good track record and their description of the dog fight was quite visual.
 
Last edited:

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Just to set the stage: According to Yankee, this PLAAF pilot was a low-profile Lieutenant Colonel with no command responsibilities (so rank > responsibility). He wasn’t eager to participate in Golden Helmet competitions, excuses like, “It’s boring to fight against our own.” So while his colleagues were busy competing, he had his free time honing skills in propaganda art—excelling at blackboard drawings. Here’s a school-level example if you don't know what that is:
View attachment 161659

Internally everyone thought he'd be going more to a political officer route. So you have the image of this sort of odd/untraditional PLAAF officer personality.

Week of Jan 28th 2022:
Normally, PLAAF engagement rules included strict limitations on posture, missile lock, aggressiveness, etc. to avoid misunderstandings or escalation. But these restrictions were lifted after the USN was found to be conducting provocative missions near the Paracel (Xisha) Islands during the Winter Olympics, a period when both sides had a tacit understanding that aggressive actions should be avoided.

So this same PLAAF pilot, flying a J-11A, was dispatched to intercept an F-35C in the area, and a mock dogfight ensued. They did not explicitly share how the F-35C was initially detected.

Ayi then visually illustrated the encounter—likely based on gun camera footage he watched himself. While being pursued by the J-11A, the F-35C suddenly lost a lot of speed as it attempted a scissor maneuver to shake off its tail. Its flight control software appeared to disrupt the maneuver, resulting in an awkward half hammerhead turn. Ayi described the motion as “twitching sideways with nose up.” This brought the two aircraft within three kilometers of each other—well inside the no-escape zone of the R-73 missile. Yankee said “If two R-73s had been fired, it would have been a guaranteed kill,”. The dog fight ended with the F-35C pilot embarrassed and shaken.

Immediately afterward (yes this same flight mission) , the F-35C pilot attempted a “Sierra Hotel Break” landing—reportedly to “boost morale,” according to that 36 page USN reports. The attempt failed, and the aircraft crashed on the deck of the USS Carl Vinson before sliding into the sea on the port side. Yankee mentioned that a high-altitude PLA surveillance aircraft observed the impact blast in real time and relayed the news directly to the base, with base personnel laughing their asses off in the com channel.

One Week later:
The U.S. Navy sent a clean Super Hornet (with no external stores except two AIM-9Xs) to reclaim the advantage. The same PLAAF pilot responded. While the dogfight may have ended in a draw, the Super Hornet boltered on its first landing attempt, requiring a touch-and-go before finally landing on the second try. So you can tell also somewhat shaken.


The evidence would be the gun cam footage that was shared in a PLA internal viewing, and the fact that the crash happened during the same flight mission as the dogfight.

This is truly a wild story and the real evidence for us minions is Yankee and Ayi's story. But they do have a very good track record and their description of the dog fight was quite visual.

So China actually splashed (no pun intended, as that's how they would've called it when downing a bogey) an F-35C without even firing a single missile. Quite impressive, I'd say.
 

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Just to set the stage: According to Yankee, this PLAAF pilot was a low-profile Lieutenant Colonel with no command responsibilities (so rank > responsibility). He wasn’t eager to participate in Golden Helmet competitions, excuses like, “It’s boring to fight against our own.” So while his colleagues were busy competing, he had his free time honing skills in propaganda art—excelling at blackboard drawings. Here’s a school-level example if you don't know what that is:
View attachment 161659

Internally everyone thought he'd be going more to a political officer route. So you have the image of this sort of odd/untraditional PLAAF officer personality.

Week of Jan 28th 2022:
Normally, PLAAF engagement rules included strict limitations on posture, missile lock, aggressiveness, etc. to avoid misunderstandings or escalation. But these restrictions were lifted after the USN was found to be conducting provocative missions near the Paracel (Xisha) Islands during the Winter Olympics, a period when both sides had a tacit understanding that aggressive actions should be avoided.

So this same PLAAF pilot, flying a J-11A, was dispatched to intercept an F-35C in the area, and a mock dogfight ensued. They did not explicitly share how the F-35C was initially detected.

Ayi then visually illustrated the encounter—likely based on gun camera footage he watched himself. While being pursued by the J-11A, the F-35C suddenly lost a lot of speed as it attempted a scissor maneuver to shake off its tail. Its flight control software appeared to disrupt the maneuver, resulting in an awkward half hammerhead turn. Ayi described the motion as “twitching sideways with nose up.” This brought the two aircraft within three kilometers of each other—well inside the no-escape zone of the R-73 missile. Yankee said “If two R-73s had been fired, it would have been a guaranteed kill,”. The dog fight ended with the F-35C pilot embarrassed and shaken.

Immediately afterward (yes this same flight mission) , the F-35C pilot attempted a “Sierra Hotel Break” landing—reportedly to “boost morale,” according to that 36 page USN reports. The attempt failed, and the aircraft crashed on the deck of the USS Carl Vinson before sliding into the sea on the port side. Yankee mentioned that a high-altitude PLA surveillance aircraft observed the impact blast in real time and relayed the news directly to the base, with base personnel laughing their asses off in the com channel.

One Week later:
The U.S. Navy sent a clean Super Hornet (with no external stores except two AIM-9Xs) to reclaim the advantage. The same PLAAF pilot responded. While the dogfight may have ended in a draw, the Super Hornet boltered on its first landing attempt, requiring a touch-and-go before finally landing on the second try. So you can tell also somewhat shaken.


The evidence would be the gun cam footage that was shared in a PLA internal viewing, and the fact that the crash happened during the same flight mission as the dogfight.

This is truly a wild story and the real evidence for us minions is Yankee and Ayi's story. But they do have a very good track record and their description of the dog fight was quite visual.

This is almost too crazy a story to consider real, but if they are putting their reputations on the line and giving such details, then I think there are grounds to entertain it as viable.

However, I would greatly caution people here from touting the details of this supposed event on other platforms/communities too confidently. This is the sort of thing where a high burden of proof would be needed to speak about it in other circles IMO.
 

siegecrossbow

General
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Super Moderator
Agreed. Probably also the reason why we are only hearing about this so much later.

He talked about this first in 2023 but didn’t go into details.

In Yankeesama's latest article he revealed info about a "flying commissar" who engaged and triumphed against two different types of enemy combat aircraft within a span of weeks.

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Blitzo

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Agreed. Probably also the reason why we are only hearing about this so much later.

Thanks for the thorough translation and summary.

One thing I don't see in the 36 page USN report is the part about "boosting morale". I assume you meant that is what Yankee and Ayi mentioned in the podcast?

===

Overall, if this specific event is true, then it seems like a combination of good piloting on behalf of the J-11A pilot, and possibly unlucky flight control software in the F-35C.
 

leonzzzz

New Member
Registered Member
@Blitzo I was not able to find the part about "boosting morale" from that report as well after staring at it.

The only things that I think are remotely relevent w.r.t to the rationale of an expedited recovery are on page 18 and 19.
1758944244621.png


2 possibilities:
1. Yankee and Ayi were talking about a totally different report, with heavy black out redactions. (
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starting at 3'40'')
2. The translation they got was exaggerated and over-interpreted
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
And the FLG gang and China Observer crew continue to insist the Flanker isn't a top shelf dogfighter. Okay, Fat Amy would get chewed up by a well flown Mig-21 in a dogfight so it's a low, low bar but these mock dogfights are supposedly quite common. Few words usually get out but two mock fights for the same "political officer" antiquated J-11A pilot is noteworthy. Particularly if they attributed the same F-35 pilot being shook enough to not make his carrier landing.

It seems like the J-11A pilot isn't much of the typical pilot type and that unwillingness and nothing to prove attitude is conducive in getting you "in the zone", in that "wu wei" Daoist mojo kind of way. Other career combat pilots have something to prove and its that extra layer of caring too much that ironically get in the way. Particularly relaxed if you're in a J-11A, there is no pressure and nothing to "lose" if you come out of the mock fight in the losing end. Then again, Fat Amy isn't renowned or designed for WVR as much as online NAFO insist it's a brilliant dogfight lol.
 
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