China Flanker Thread II

[manqiangrexue]

My own thought is that SAC will be helping to increase production of the J-20, that will be be the critical need that cannot be attained anywhere else, to beat on Chinese Flankers and lay this as a problem for SAC in no the problem. Chinese Flankers are in many ways superior to Russian Flankers for Chinese purposes!

I dunno. They could award more land and factories for Chengdu to manage to ramp up J-20 production but to have Shenyang produce a Chengdu product seems a bit... off the grid? Has there been examples of that? Even in other countries? The only way I could see this possibly happening is if, in a huge slap to Shenyang's face, AVIC put some of Shenyang's production plants (say the ones for J-11D) under Chengdu command.

 

[Totoro]

Chengdu was at one time producing j7 based on shengyangs blueprints, after Sac handed off their production to them.

 

[delft]

My own thought is that SAC will be helping to increase production of the J-20, that will be be the critical need that cannot be attained anywhere else, to beat on Chinese Flankers and lay this as a problem for SAC in no the problem. Chinese Flankers are in many ways superior to Russian Flankers for Chinese purposes!

Whatever SAC might do to help produce J-20's it should not affect the number of Flankers produced per year.

 

[Air Force Brat]

I dunno. They could award more land and factories for Chengdu to manage to ramp up J-20 production but to have Shenyang produce a Chengdu product seems a bit... off the grid? Has there been examples of that? Even in other countries? The only way I could see this possibly happening is if, in a huge slap to Shenyang's face, AVIC put some of Shenyang's production plants (say the ones for J-11D) under Chengdu command.

Boeing, Northrup, and many other companies, in many different countries are subcontracting F-35 production, that's the way its done when you need to "ramp up production"! My point was that China has been able to source Flankers from Russia recently with the contract for the SU-35, at least 24 so far, and possibly more?

There is however no other source for J-20 however than Chengdu, and while they could indeed build other assembly buildings at Chengdu?? I don't know the real estate situation? or the skilled aircraft quality labor situation, the more expedient solution would be to allow Shenyang to subcontract some of the work. Those Chinese Flankers are beautiful, indicating to me a very skilled and efficient labor force!

There's even a "final assembly" plant in Italy and I believe the Israeli's are building a bunch of wings for everybody's F-35s??

 

[Air Force Brat]

Whatever SAC might do to help produce J-20's it should not affect the number of Flankers produced per year.

As I have pointed out, SAC could and should, (from a Chinese perspective), be helping to ramp up J-20 production,,,, the recent purchase by China, of Russian SU-35s has shocked several of us. President Xi and President Trump are even now meeting in Maralago, how that goes will definitely have an effect on Chinese Flanker production and likely already has? if indeed the J-11D has been cancelled???

 

[delft]

Boeing, Northrup, and many other companies, in many different countries are subcontracting F-35 production, that's the way its done when you need to "ramp up production"! My point was that China has been able to source Flankers from Russia recently with the contract for the SU-35, at least 24 so far, and possibly more?

There is however no other source for J-20 however than Chengdu, and while they could indeed build other assembly buildings at Chengdu?? I don't know the real estate situation? or the skilled aircraft quality labor situation, the more expedient solution would be to allow Shenyang to subcontract some of the work. Those Chinese Flankers are beautiful, indicating to me a very skilled and efficient labor force!

There's even a "final assembly" plant in Italy and I believe the Israeli's are building a bunch of wings for everybody's F-35s??

The main reason work is distributed over the US and even over the World is that it gives politicians the possibility to say that they get something back for voting to buy the aircraft. I read some time ago that F-35 work was distributed over nearly all US states thus protecting the project from cuts by Congress. The Dutch government paid $1b many years ago to buy work in the project in the apparently vain hope of letting Dutch companies make a larger profit than that.

 

[Air Force Brat]

The main reason work is distributed over the US and even over the World is that it gives politicians the possibility to say that they get something back for voting to buy the aircraft. I read some time ago that F-35 work was distributed over nearly all US states thus protecting the project from cuts by Congress. The Dutch government paid $1b many years ago to buy work in the project in the apparently vain hope of letting Dutch companies make a larger profit than that.

Yep, but "Pork" can be a good thing, jobs are important, and the F-35 is any economy booster in lots and lots of communities. That helps everybody, and spreads the love around. The truth is, its an amazing airplane, and a force multiplier!

Our partners are getting their money's worth, its an incredible airframe, with an incredible amount of flexibility and capability for the money!

Coming back on topic, the J-20 is also a great airplane, but it needs a manufacturing base! The Flankers will make up the back-bone of the Chinese Air Force for years to come, but they need to back that up, with a real 5 gen.

So whether or not SAC works on the J-20 or the FC-31, which is also looking more promising! they will be on to some type of 5 gen, trust me on this, I do have my sources!

 

[delft]

Yep, but "Pork" can be a good thing, jobs are important, and the F-35 is any economy booster in lots and lots of communities. That helps everybody, and spreads the love around. The truth is, its an amazing airplane, and a force multiplier!

Our partners are getting their money's worth, its an incredible airframe, with an incredible amount of flexibility and capability for the money!

Coming back on topic, the J-20 is also a great airplane, but it needs a manufacturing base! The Flankers will make up the back-bone of the Chinese Air Force for years to come, but they need to back that up, with a real 5 gen.

So whether or not SAC works on the J-20 or the FC-31, which is also looking more promising! they will be on to some type of 5 gen, trust me on this, I do have my sources!

Also a cost multiplier. Pork needs to be paid for. It's most unlikely the Dutch government will get its money back to to the Dutch taxpayer these will be 38, or fewer, very expensive aircraft that will play no role in the defence of the Netherlands but perhaps in some war in Africa or Asia.
China doesn't need to use defence money to achieve the re-election of politicians so gets its aircraft cheaper.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Also a cost multiplier. Pork needs to be paid for. It's most unlikely the Dutch government will get its money back to to the Dutch taxpayer these will be 38, or fewer, very expensive aircraft that will play no role in the defence of the Netherlands but perhaps in some war in Africa or Asia.
China doesn't need to use defence money to achieve the re-election of politicians so gets its aircraft cheaper.

Well Master Delft, I didn't know you prophessed to be a Prophet brother, but I'm glad to hear that the Netherlands is safe for the foreseeable life of the F-35! ( by the way, how long will they last???)

 

[Air Force Brat]

Also a cost multiplier. Pork needs to be paid for. It's most unlikely the Dutch government will get its money back to to the Dutch taxpayer these will be 38, or fewer, very expensive aircraft that will play no role in the defence of the Netherlands but perhaps in some war in Africa or Asia.
China doesn't need to use defence money to achieve the re-election of politicians so gets its aircraft cheaper.

An airplane that you help build, and build parts for other partners, will always be a cheaper airplane capability for capability than one you have to buy out-right, 24 Flankers for 2 Billion isn't cheap!