Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36)

Kind of reminds me of the J-8 improvement over the J-7 if they do end up rushing the J-36 into service then.
You add one more engine, add more speed, add more range, and get the internal space for a larger radar than a J-20 but with no true generational leap in technology.

Nevertheless having a barebones fighter jet entering service to provide readiness is no shame, as that had been the case with both the Rafale and the Eurofighter for their very first variants in the early 2000s.

Stop this stupid argument china should not go back in to that stupid cycle where the plane is before the engines especially with 6th Gen when we know f47 and faxx will launch with vce j36 and j50 should be launch with vce and no substitute it's ridiculous and embarrassing the plane before the engine cycle china has been going through for years most end with the j35 it's backwards and insulting the one thing that makes a 6th a 6th Gen is vce engines anything less and is not 6th Gen

........... said:

Stop this stupid argument china should not go back in to that stupid cycle where the plane is before the engines especially with 6th Gen when we know f47 and faxx while launch with vce j36 and j50 should be launch with vce and no substitute it's ridiculous and embarrassing the plane before the engine cycle china has been going through for years most end with the j35 it's backwards and insulting the one thing that makes a 6th a 6th genyis vce engines anything less and is not 6th Gen

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Nonsense. US news indicate theirs vce engines won't complete their prototype design work until at least 2029, let alone a working engine fit for flying on real aircraft. If boeing has any truth in planning for F47 first flight in 2028, it will definitely be with current available engines.

Tomboy said:

There is no rush, USAF's prototype isn't meant to fly for another 2 years. J-20 was forced into production in very different circumstances than today where PLA forces is approaching parity and exceeding in some areas compared to the US. Given that a conflict is probably not likely in the next few years and even it is, the PLA still likely holds parity or better, there is no reason to make design compromises in development just so they can rush it into service before 2030 as people are hoping for.

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That is the difference of having the superiority with J-36 against F-35 instead of being peers. That is a political, psychological, and military advantage.

jospence said:

If China uses military force to complete reunification and take Taiwan, it also gets to set its own schedule as to when that takes place. The J-36 is just one of many systems in development that will allow the Chinese military to be in complete parity if not ahead of the US military. New missiles, new submarines, new drones, new AEW&C, new destroyers, new frigates, new carriers, new lasers, ect are all in development or close to starting LRIP. The J-36 will be ready when it's ready, which appears to be in line with many of these other systems. The only other major risk of military conflict is *maybe* with Japan, but Japan is essentially a US puppet state and if the US doesn't want Japan to go to war with China, it has the influence to do so. We should hopefully only be 5 to 7 years away from J-36 being ready at the latest, and it's very possible it will be ready much sooner than we think.

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To both comments.

Conflict happens when it happens, no one knows exactly no when it will happen, that is one big reasons countries have a standing army to be ready for it when it happens. No actors have complete controls of Taiwan/SCS flashpoint. China can act but it can also be forced to act by irrational nations. If anything the past year has proven, the world has gotten a lot crazier. And events happen way faster than nation's can respond by starting a new plane production and training.


That said, I am not one for rushing the plane ny disregarding subsystems, electronics, radars and etc.. except the engine. There are rumors that VCE is coming along faster than expected but if it doesn't turn out that way, I think it is wiser to use WS-15 to begin with. The earlier the production, the more time to refine the production line and reduce construction cost instead of US's love of creating a few silver bullets.

........... said:

Stop this stupid argument china should not go back in to that stupid cycle where the plane is before the engines especially with 6th Gen when we know f47 and faxx while launch with vce j36 and j50 should be launch with vce and no substitute it's ridiculous and embarrassing the plane before the engine cycle china has been going through for years most end with the j35 it's backwards and insulting the one thing that makes a 6th a 6th genyis vce engines anything less and is not 6th Gen

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The F-14 started off with TF-30s before eventually switching to the F110-GE-400, but no one can deny it was a legendary fighter that kicked off the 4th-gen era and packed some serious punch. The advantage of the J-36 using WS-15s is that it can enter service way earlier than the F-47 with its variable cycle engine, and it’ll give the PLAAF a massive boost in intercepting US strategic bombers and support aircraft. As for a version with a full domestic variable cycle engine, I’m pretty confident that won’t be late either.

Time is in China's favor. but the US could still try to take their chance and instigate something soon while they can. China needs to ensure it can survive until then and having a stealthy PL-17 missile slinger alone is extremely valuable and can make people reconsider certain things. The difference between going for the iterative and waterfall approach is you get a bunch of 5.75+ fighters by the time the final product is out vs 0. I'm not saying mass production, but I think just having a small production line going in case things go hot is a good idea. You also get a lot more opportunities to test the plane during full on exercises and discover other errors you may not have otherwise found, as well as polish out the production line, setting up a good foundation for when the full product comes into service. The J-36 won't stay at it's half-baked state just like how the J-20 didn't stay that way either. We will get the final product by the 203x date in both cases.

I think what yankee mentioned has nothing to do with the J-36 itself, but the missiles.

Keep an eye on the Zhuhai Airshow.

Tomboy said:

There is no rush, USAF's prototype isn't meant to fly for another 2 years. J-20 was forced into production in very different circumstances than today where PLA forces is approaching parity and exceeding in some areas compared to the US. Given that a conflict is probably not likely in the next few years and even it is, the PLA still likely holds parity or better, there is no reason to make design compromises in development just so they can rush it into service before 2030 as people are hoping for.

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The WS-10C/X equipped J-20s (pre J-20A model) are quite a lot more capable than J-16, J-10C and everything else in PLAAF service until J-35 and J-20A arrival in recent months.

The hundreds of J-20 manufactured between 2017 and 2025 is quite a force. Sure it cost money and all that but you can't really say it would have been better to not have paid for and received all those units and waited until J-20A with WS-15 reached service. That's 7 - 8 years of manufacturing, iterative improvements, at least 2 sub-blocks and 400 fighters PLAAF had to develop tactics and everything else in between.

It would be the best course of action for 6th gen as well even if intended VCE engines are not ready/ mass produceable at required rates when J-36 and J-50 are ready for PLAAF.

bsdnf said:

I think what yankee mentioned has nothing to do with the J-36 itself, but the missiles.

Keep an eye on the Zhuhai Airshow.

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I wonder what sort of missile upgrades could there be that quickly expands current capabilities? A PL17 ranged but PL15 sized VLRAAM that can be internally carried by J20 and J35? That sounds like black magic.

leonzzzz said:

I wonder what sort of missile upgrades could there be that quickly expands current capabilities? A PL17 ranged but PL15 sized VLRAAM that can be internally carried by J20 and J35? That sounds like black magic.

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We've actually had this rumour circulating for years that there is an incredibly long ranged surface to air missile described as "万里" or 10,000km.

Then last year there were rumours about PL-17 being succeeded and PL-16 having completely replaced PL-15 when it comes to manufacturing state and an even longer ranged (compared to PL-17 and its successor) air to air missile that is "万里". Second/third tier rumours began tying these "万里" missiles with propulsion used in hypersonic missiles. Anyway they would be extremely large and 5th and 6th gen fighters will be carrying PL-16, PL-17 and possibly PL-17 successor instead of any 10,000km ranged air to air missile.

If there is a 10,000km SAM that makes use of hypersonic weapon technologies that have matured in the last 20 years (China having fielded second gen versions already after 2025 disclosures), then it doesn't seem much more of a leap to have a similarly insane ranged air to air weapon. The question is more what platform carries such a weapon and for now obviously only the H-6 and GJ-x can do. Until H-20 and any potential JH-xx arrives.

Going back to Yankee's hint and the supposed link to missile rather than fighter, it would probably be PL-15/16 class or at most PL-17 class. Therefore it's likely to be in reference to PL-17 successor, but wait! only J-36 can carry PL-17 and successor sized ULRAAM and since the context of the hint is more for existing 5th gens ie J-20A, J-20S, J-35, J-35A, therefore the missile would be more PL-15/16 sized.