Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Ain't the J58 combined cycled though? That's not a "traditional gas turbine engine" by any means.
well the turbojet intake isn't ever closed off, but there is a bypass.

I guess a more classical example is the R-15 which was greatly held back by being made of regular steel, which won't be a problem with a modern Chinese version.

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Maikeru

Major
Registered Member
Sorry for getting your hopes up yall. I refined my nose calculations with a new 3d model given the blurry side photo we've newly got and it looks like ideally only a ~1.0m^2 radar would fit. Given any module density, take this as you will.

Using my previous calculations, this brings the module count down to a more conservative ~4000. I will continue updating as new photos come out. View attachment 142245
PS: I know the chine has not being properly modeled, this doesn't affect the nose structure much.

I'm also hopeful in getting a fluid simulation done too, not that it affects the radar or anything but I'm interested in if I could get a rough coefficient of drag for fun.
Who says the whole radar will be in the nose? Why not conformal arrays elsewhere around the airframe?
 

Nx4eu

Junior Member
Registered Member
Who says the whole radar will be in the nose? Why not conformal arrays elsewhere around the airframe?
I completely understand that there very well could be arrays in other parts of the aircraft, side arrays almost confirmed from the photo's we've seen. I'm mainly interested in what could be housed in the radome, why? Because it gives the best apples to apples comparison to current fighter systems, (other than the su57) and maximum frontal and BVR abilities against targets infront of the aircraft. 1735617954557.png
(if true, 4000 in the nose completely smashes the numbers of the su57 shown here)

If you pardon my fanboy numbers, if all else are equal (which is impossible because Irbis-E is PESA and old)
X-Band Radar with 4000 elements in the nose, 0.03s dwell time,10Ghz Frequency, 10W modules and 1 us pulsewidth like the Irbis-E shown above. Target 3sqm
(only difference is element amount here),
The array will have a PD of 90% at 351km, and a PD of 50% 547km away,
^the number shown here, take it with the worlds largest salt flat, because this is probably the absolutely most conservative and lowest estimate of the range of an array with 4000 elements.
 
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LuzinskiJ

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well, it says "afterburning turbojet." So yes, it's not a turbofan per se, but I doubt even a turbojet or most conventional gas turbine engines can operate that those speeds and altitude effectively.
Mig25 flew to 38km height and attain Mach 3+ (although limited to Mach 2.8 due to reasons) with a lousy engine, so I'd say present day turbo jet should be able to go to mach 3 as well. On the US side the Valkyrie can as well, but it had 6 engines.
 

LuzinskiJ

Junior Member
Registered Member
Sorry for getting your hopes up yall. I refined my nose calculations with a new 3d model given the blurry side photo we've newly got and it looks like ideally only a ~1.0m^2 radar would fit. Given any module density, take this as you will.

Using my previous calculations, this brings the module count down to a more conservative ~4000. I will continue updating as new photos come out. View attachment 142245
PS: I know the chine has not being properly modeled, this doesn't affect the nose structure much.

I'm also hopeful in getting a fluid simulation done too, not that it affects the radar or anything but I'm interested in if I could get a rough coefficient of drag for fun.
I am not sure if you are inclining the surface of the radar bulkhead at all, but if you are not, inclining it a few degrees will give you more surface area to install TR modules and lessen radar return from opposing radars at the same time.
 

iewgnem

Junior Member
Registered Member
It doesn't work this way.
Vertical ceiling for most non-manpad missiles is determined by effective pK, i.e. can they maneuver or not at given altitude.
Reaching it isn't a problem.
It works exactly that way when the number come from wiki and American marketing, in SM6's case it also has no requirement to maneuver when intercepting ballistics.
 

LuzinskiJ

Junior Member
Registered Member
It has to do with the angle of the munition in relation to incoming airstream. In normal cases the exiting munition experiences aerodynamic pressure head on, as for vertical launch the exiting munition experiences aerodynamic pressure laterally along it's longitudinal axis almost like a shearing force. Low subsonic maybe it's ok, supersonic launch is another matter
Can jet fighters fire off flares at supersonic speeds? If yes, then hard-kill munitions can be designed to be safely fired off as well, I believe. Also, if there is AI augmented flying, then during a evasive maneuver the AI can steer the plane into an optimal flight path for the Hard kill munition to intercept the incoming missile. From what I understand, most AA missiles follow the Proportional Guidance algorithm to intercept its target, so if you know where that missile is (and its heading and speed), you know where you are then you sort of know how that missile plans on killing you. At that point, AI can "lure" the incoming missile into a path what would be easier for the hard kill munition to get to given its limited fuel and kinematics. It is probably like solving some hairy partial differential equations.
 
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Nx4eu

Junior Member
Registered Member
I am not sure if you are inclining the surface of the radar bulkhead at all, but if you are not, inclining it a few degrees will give you more surface area to install TR modules and lessen radar return from opposing radars at the same time.
There is no incline, but given how the radar could be mounted in the radome, the area could actually shrink given as the array is usually a big portion smaller than the radome outline. Therefore I'd like to stay reasonable in what could possible fit in the given size.
 
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