Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread

[reservior dogs]

A very interesting question is whether the top engine is a scramjet. If it is, there will be a huge implication not only on speed, but also combat radius. Someone with more knowledge please comment.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

I wouldn't even be surprised if it carries some kind of decoy UAV in the IWB

So towed decoy except no strings attached?

Yes. The ADM-160B/J MALD of the USAF/USN is a prime example.



The J-36 certainly can carry one or few of them inside its side IWBs (~4 meters long) in place of a couple MRAAMs, as the MALD is only ~2.9 meters long x ~0.4 meters wide.

With purported ranges of 900+ kilometers and the ability to cruise at Mach ~0.8-0.9, the J-36 could launch them outside enemy radar/IR detection ranges and have them fly alongside until the J-36 reaches its mission/battle zone.

Something like the MALD is very much within the capability of the Chinese MIC to develop. I'd argue that they could even go for a supersonic-capable variant (which can be turned on for short durations), with the only downside being the need for additional length an/or costing some range.

The same goes for the J-XDS and the loyal wingman UCAVs.

 

[Fatty]

Both SAC and CAC’s designs are basically guaranteed to go into service right? Since the designs seem pretty mature already? Will JH-XX be cancelled now?

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Both SAC and CAC’s designs are basically guaranteed to go into service right? Since the designs seem pretty mature already?

It's too early to say that the designs have matured and finalized, given that they just had their first flights (or possibly about to, for Shenyang AC's case).

Will JH-XX be cancelled now?

I don't think there's going to be JH-XX anymore.

The roles and capabilities of which the JH-XX was originally envisioned to play/have would've already found their way forward on the J-36, J-DXS and even when MUMT-ed with UCAVs.

 

[Brainsuker]

It's too early to say that the designs have matured and finalized, given that they just had their first flights (or possibly about to, for Shenyang AC's case).



I don't think there's going to be JH-XX anymore.

More likely than not, the roles and capabilities of which the JH-XX was originally envisioned to play/have would've already found their way forward on the J-36, J-DXS and even when MUMT-ed with UCAVs.

So how it is to be J-36 and not JH-36? I understand that it can bring air to air missile. But would it replace J-20 and J-35 role in air to air combat? Or maybe it has the ability of air to air, but with better air to ground capability? Because when I see the cockpit area in the photo, it seems that it doesn't use the canopy like the usual fighter, but more like SU-34.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

So how it is to be J-36 and not JH-36? I understand that it can bring air to air missile. But would it replace J-20 and J-35 role in air to air combat? Or maybe it has the ability of air to air, but with better air to ground capability? Because when I see the cockpit area in the photo, it seems that it doesn't use the canopy like the usual fighter, but more like SU-34.

Based on current observations, I do expect the J-36 to excel in both BVR A2A and A2G roles, i.e. something akin to the J-16 or J-35/A. Both the J-16 and J-35/A are fully capable of going toe-to-toe with enemy fighters, but also capable of acting as bomb/missile trucks when needed.

I don't think we would ever see the "JH" prefix for the J-36 because it's not a fighter-bomber that is more on the bomber-side in terms of roles, but more of a multi-role combat aircraft in an all-encompassing 6th-gen aerial combat system.

 

[tphuang]

It is just a way of coping. We are entering a new era of air combat philosophy (think going from wooden warships to iron clads) but they are still clinging to tactics outdated even in the mid 2010s, the very thing they mock the Russians on if I recall correctly (focus on BFM instead of avionics and RCS reduction) they are now grasping desperately at in order to discredit the J-36 and save face.

In fact in this video Yankee and ShiLao anticipated Western analysts downplaying it as a “fighter-bomber”. Surprisingly how little people learn in over a decade.

I do wonder if this is a case where most western “experts” have fallen behind Chinese ones in future air warfare concept. There was a point when China learnt from the west on what to do. Maybe you will see the reverse soon.

That's why I think future manned combat aircraft boil down to 2 type: offense and defense
J-XC(J36) is the offense type, J-XS(SAC) is the defense type

I wouldn’t think about it that way.

There is even a possibility of using ballistic missiles as boosters to launch hypersonic UCAV such as the MD22 directly into a combat zone, with J-XCs commanding them. This requires almost no transit time, and can quickly gather a formidable A2A force over any war zone in a short time, while the J-XC itself does not have to face any dangerous scenarios.

Certainly within the realm of possibility. Just remember that drones don’t have to cruise together there with J36. That’s the point.

 

[tphuang]

So how it is to be J-36 and not JH-36? I understand that it can bring air to air missile. But would it replace J-20 and J-35 role in air to air combat? Or maybe it has the ability of air to air, but with better air to ground capability? Because when I see the cockpit area in the photo, it seems that it doesn't use the canopy like the usual fighter, but more like SU-34.

Please read what I just wrote. I don’t want to keep repeating myself

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

It is just a way of coping. We are entering a new era of air combat philosophy (think going from wooden warships to iron clads) but they are still clinging to tactics outdated even in the mid 2010s, the very thing they mock the Russians on if I recall correctly (focus on BFM instead of avionics and RCS reduction) they are now grasping desperately at in order to discredit the J-36 and save face.

In fact in this video Yankee and ShiLao anticipated Western analysts downplaying it as a “fighter-bomber”. Surprisingly how little people learn in over a decade.

Agreed. The mistakes in their initial judgement on what the J-20 is supposed to be never came to enlighten them this time around, for some reason.

In fact, the Guancha Trios even anticipated in an early-November podcast that the first reactions of the West upon seeing the J-36/J-XDC would be like how the Soviets initially reacted to the F-14 (air-superiority) fighter back in the 1970s - They thought that it was just another F-111 fighter-bomber.

Needless to say, their predictions were in fact spot-on.

 

[Blitzo]

I do wonder if this is a case where most western “experts” have fallen behind Chinese ones in future air warfare concept. There was a point when China learnt from the west on what to do. Maybe you will see the reverse soon.

No, I just think it's a case of western "experts" and commentariat being unable to accurately mirror their own efforts to PRC efforts.

After all the US, Europe etc are all actively pursuing system of systems approaches to next gen air superiority including generous use of UCAVs/CCAs, but when looking at PLA efforts they just can't seem to have the imagination to put the various pieces together