Central/South American Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Ultimately, it is unlikely that there will be any easy road to recovery for the Argentine Armed Forces in general. Even with a marked economic upturn in the country, the absence of any real security threat to Argentina and lingering public and political suspicion of the military, together with numerous social programs demanding funding, will likely limit the scale of any reinvestment in the military. Given this, it seems that the Argentine Armed Forces will have to come to terms with the fact that their fall from grace in the country is a permanent one, something for which they themselves must carry a burden of responsibility.


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ique locura! Argentina would be pretty much defenceless from air attacks if something geopolitical shifts in South America and/or one her neighbors get frisky.... And if you lose the air war you severely compromise your other forces.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
ique locura! Argentina would be pretty much defenceless from air attacks if something geopolitical shifts in South America and/or one her neighbors get frisky.... And if you lose the air war you severely compromise your other forces.

Absolutely kwaigon! Currently there are only 22 A-4AR and 3 OA-4AR that provide any air defense for the nation. The land area of Argentina is about ¼ that of the continental USA. And only 25 aircraft to control the skies is laughable. If Chile were to get “frisky” as you say there is nothing that could be done from them annexing the Patagonia (something they have always coveted). Most nations that neglect their nation defense either become puppets of their neighbors or cases to exist as nations.

I truly do not know when the people will wake up and see the peril the nation “could be” in. It will take an outside threat to change public opinion. However, by that time the war will be lost and the military will be to blame as opposed to the politicians that have them in a short leash.


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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Currently there are only 22 A-4AR and 3 OA-4AR that provide any air defense for the nation.

If Chile were to get “frisky” there is nothing that could be done.
Chile has about 50 F-16s (including Block 50, and Block 20MLU aircraft)...and 10 or so F-5s. I believe the Chilean F-16s carry Python 4 WVR missiles (15 km) and Derby BVR missiles (50 km). They would be quite formidable.

Chile-F16-01.jpg

Chile-F16-02.jpg

The A-4s are very maneuverable, and good for acting as aggressor aircraft in training for dogfights. But, even with the upgrades that produced the A4-AR between 1997 and 2000, in a stand up air to air engagement, they are wholly unsuited against anything with even half-way decent BVR capabilities.

I am afraid there would be no contest against those F-16s.

Still, the A-4AR is a nice looking aircraft and for people like me who have some nostalgia about A-4 service in the US Navy, we always love to see them still flying:

Argentina_Air_Force_McDonnell_Douglas_A-4AR_Fightinghawk_Lofting-2.jpg
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Chile has about 50 F-16s (including Block 50, and Block 20MLU aircraft)...and 10 or so F-5s. I believe the Chilean F-16s carry Python 4 WVR missiles (15 km) and Derby BVR missiles (50 km). They would be quite formidable.
The A-4s are very maneuverable, and good for acting as aggressor aircraft in training for dogfights. But, even with the upgrades that produced the A4-AR between 1997 and 2000, in a stand up air to air engagement, they are wholly unsuited against anything with even half-way decent BVR capabilities.

I am afraid there would be no contest against those F-16s.

Still, the A-4AR is a nice looking aircraft and for people like me who have some nostalgia about A-4 service in the US Navy, we always love to see them still flying:

Yes you are correct Jeff there are 9 F-5E Tiger II (modified by Israel) and 36 F-16A MLU acquired from the Royal Dutch Air Force and 10 F-16 block 50 purchased from the United States. The 10 purchased from the USA are capable of utilizing the AMRAAM missile system (of which Chile has 100). The other 36 F-16 MLUs can only utilize Derby and Python 4 systems. Even the derby and the python 4 are can knock A-4s out of the sky with almost impunity.

The A-4AR utilize the Shafrir 2 (350 missiles, delivered 1981) and approximately 50 Python 4 systems. Yes the A-4 is any attractive aircraft.:)

PS: Chile is considering the acquisition of another 18 F-16A MLUs. If they are purchased that would be 64 F-16s. By far the most potent Air Force in Latin America until the Arrival of the JAS-39 in Brazil.


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kwaigonegin

Colonel
Chile has about 50 F-16s (including Block 50, and Block 20MLU aircraft)...and 10 or so F-5s. I believe the Chilean F-16s carry Python 4 WVR missiles (15 km) and Derby BVR missiles (50 km). They would be quite formidable.


The A-4s are very maneuverable, and good for acting as aggressor aircraft in training for dogfights. But, even with the upgrades that produced the A4-AR between 1997 and 2000, in a stand up air to air engagement, they are wholly unsuited against anything with even half-way decent BVR capabilities.

I am afraid there would be no contest against those F-16s.

Still, the A-4AR is a nice looking aircraft and for people like me who have some nostalgia about A-4 service in the US Navy, we always love to see them still flying:

View attachment 18753

Yes... Not to go Into a a vs b discussion but you're absolutely right... Chilean AF can just go in anytime they want and there would be pretty much cakewalk against the couple squadrons of argentine A4s.

When you have such huge disparity in capability gap you don't even need much planing... Those a4s would be pretty much defenseless against the viper blk 50s and the pythons that's why I said it's loco considering Argentina has a higher GDP, has parity in GDP per capita and for all intents and purposes a much 'richer' country.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any country where the military is in such dismal shape when compared to her much smaller neighbors and much lower GDP.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Uruguayan Defense Minister urges the bidding Ocean Patrol aircraft for the Navy and fought for FAU

8KUI2tm.jpg

(Defensa.com) The Minister of National Defense of Uruguay, Eleuterio Fernandez Huidobro, appeared at the Senate Defence Committee to explain the priority needs for national defense. In his presentation he highlighted the urgent need on the part of the Air Force to renew the fleet of combat aircraft, whose life is irrevocably depleted in early 2018, and the necessary provision in the Navy for Ocean Patrol (OPV) who literally stood at three and a VTS network.

Regarding the priority to have the latter, he stressed that "if you have to go through dangerous channels in an estuary such as the Rio de la Plata, which must be of the busiest on the planet, with high commercial vessels cost, and no inverted commas "highway patrol" global banks to ensure these ships are going to get tough on their policies. That hurts our ports, our production and our exports and imports. Sovereignty rests in the sea if you are; if you are not, you lose. "

Three IPOs
Referring to the demand for means of ocean patrol for the Navy, Fernandez Huidobro said that "the Uruguay fishing quotas are lost in the case of tuna fished if not because FAO distributes annually and gives them to another country, even within our waters. This is a very suggestive phenomenon where the concept of sovereignty in the future will, because tomorrow it could apply the same reasoning in other areas than the sea. This is a personal comment that arises for me cause I fear that those facts. We think to patrol and properly care that new piece of map which would make the Uruguay largest in the maritime area on the ground, not counting the Antarctica- need three OPV-for its acronym in English, a type of ship ocean patrol is well known among sailors; It is not any kind of ship, or larger, or smaller, or in another form, is a versatile ship that can serve both civilian and military activities. It is armed, if you will, you can be more so still and his crew can consist of a few people; It has an onboard helicopter and can also be semi-rigid boats, can lead a contingent of ships and operations to address others. In turn, also have to have extra space to bring sick people or victims of maritime fire-think in plataformas- and at the same time, many wounded. It means that these characteristics are made for that kind of things, some of them new, for example, we have signed commitments against piracy. They are boats that leave more distance, have autonomy to spend more time away and take up a helicopter can not be any, but has to be able to charge enough people.

In military terms, it would have to be a medium helicopter. Why? Because if tomorrow we have to rescue the sea or on a platform where there were accidents and there are people to bail out, not only the boat is what pulls them out, but the helicopter has the advantage that comes faster, he takes out and driving the boat. It's all very well thought out and designed by engineers around the world, because in every country there and have more or less the same design with small variations. About-what I say openly, since it is common knowledge that you cannot have vessels without having helicopters that are apart, USD 70,000,000 each. Uruguay needed three. "

Fighters for the FAU
During his appearance, after exposing the naval needs, Huidobro referred to the need for fighters to the Uruguayan Air Force: "In this case we have another problem because in a few years we ran the A-37, already aircraft museum . In turn they were bought to fight the guerrillas in Uruguay; the guerrillas were arrested and are now ministers or ex-Presidents, and continue with the A-37, which is also used in the Vietnam War. We must also say that they no longer get parts for those planes or for the discontinued factories. The same thing happens with other aircraft we have. I'm talking about combat because in other respects the Air Force is fine. In combat what we could get and we can not throw more than that piolita. It is dangerous even to fly these aircraft. So we have to renew the fleet and now speaks very heavy figures in relation to that topic. I do not know if this has always been very expensive or more expensive now by technology, but for some years, when these things were planned and discussed in the nascent Chiefs of Defence, the National Armed Force and Air, among others, was that this could not go to the National Budget. The presence of resources-that say them and are visible-is a deterrent for any adventurer think, "In Uruguay, with little thing, I can wreak havoc on the sea in its territory and in its airspace ". I'm talking about an individual; I not think a foreign power.

Now continued welfare never saw that this could be included in a budget bill. Why? Because every company that has visited us, asked us audience, always she comes back with a bank. In fact, although I say exaggerating a bit, what we sell is a credit. United States and some European countries have their average yards unemployed. They have their working class and unemployed technicians and then there will finance the buy to implement immediately those shipyards. Make a boat of these takes about two years, although some countries offer some already made. Since we now know -because I read the magazines and gossip coming out in the press that much money can be awakened dance lawful and legal ambitions companies and representatives, and understand that the Senators have been visited lords their offices and the National Defense Commission. (...) have been visited and tenaciously visited, and that shows how the world economy works. We call for bids and that the wording of the statements have delegates from all political parties, not just the government. "

The minister surprised unexpectedly praising decisions on such issues for his political archrival and almost historic personal enemy, former President Jorge Batlle: "For there to be greater transparency in the event that we acquire these things, it is best to go to the system was used during the administration of Don Jorge Batlle because that way the ultra guarantee transparency. We speak of a public auction by the stockbrokers and the National Association of Auctioneers, but until last moment know who represents the corridor when the envelope is opened. In addition, it is broadcast on radio and television. " Recalling its military past, and even, recent processing hierarchy by fraudulent acts, Fernandez Huidobro said: "I already was in jail a long time and do not want to go to jail for a tender. It would be very sad and not the bear that jail because he would be there for a fool. "

Answering concerns of opposition senator Javier García, about the financing of this package of at least $ 500 million, the chief expressed his willingness to sell non-core properties Defense Ministry: "We must make a capital reorganization, because there barracks disturb the city that surrounds today and, in turn, the city does not allow them to operate because, at the time, were built on the outskirts of town and are now determined within it. Maybe you should sell or transfer them to a quartermaster, to give them some utility and in return, build a new headquarters. This means that we think just for a capital reorganization of the Portfolio. If it is to sell assets, which always do and where to acquire suitable assets, suddenly, in a few years, it will have to revise again because the country is moving and growing. That can be a source of funds. Another may be a budget, small annual amount that Uruguay always gives, for X years, to enrich a trust. "

The trust can also be supplied with a part of what companies pay survey. To a question from Senator German opposition also Coutinho, about what would be the future of the topic not obtained all the resources, the defense minister admitted the possibility of partial acquisitions or "take risks" do not even provide funding for startup .

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Miragedriver

Brigadier
Yes... Not to go Into a a vs b discussion but you're absolutely right... Chilean AF can just go in anytime they want and there would be pretty much cakewalk against the couple squadrons of argentine A4s.

When you have such huge disparity in capability gap you don't even need much planing... Those a4s would be pretty much defenseless against the viper blk 50s and the pythons that's why I said it's loco considering Argentina has a higher GDP, has parity in GDP per capita and for all intents and purposes a much 'richer' country.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any country where the military is in such dismal shape when compared to her much smaller neighbors and much lower GDP.

You are correct there is money to purchase equipment and more importantly there is money to train with it and maintain it. During the late 1970s and early 1980s the military acquired the fleet of MEKO vessels (4 Meko 360 and 6 Meko 1400 together with 39 IAI Nesher from Israel and 10 Mirage V from Peru. There even was an attempt to purchase 36 A-4H from Israel, but the sale was blocked (this was after 1982).

Unfortunately, for the foreseeable future, the Argentine military will continue to be viewed through the eyes of its actions during the 1976-1983 period of military rule and the 1982 Falklands/Malvinas War. Additionally the current regime is comprised of former Montonero members that have always despised the military. But the punishment that they are inflicting on the military will come back to haunt them one day. However like the good like progressive socialists that they are, they will blame it on someone else.

If you wish to read up on the Montoneros and there activities, you will see why the Military did what it had to do:
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Unfortunately, for the foreseeable future, the Argentine military will continue to be viewed through the eyes of its actions during the 1976-1983 period of military rule and the 1982 Falklands/Malvinas War.
Only, IMHO, because this current regime keeps trying to point back to it and stir it up.

This makes England and her allies nervous. I know the UK, the US, and others would like it put behind them...but when Argentine leaders keep talking like they are planning to get them back anyway, despite being defeated...it just means that the UK, the US, and others can't put it behind them...and that brings negative impact to Argentina.

Additionally the current regime is comprised of former Montonero members that have always despised the military. But the punishment that they are inflicting on the military will come back to haunt them one day.
I think you are probably hitting on the root cause for Argentina's military woes right here. With such a view of military matters, culture, expenditures, etc. No amount of them trying to deflect things with hot rhetoric about the Falklands will compensate for what they are doing to the military themselves.

Of course, they hope to find "new," friends that can "make a deal," with them to revitalize the military in that fashion. But everything has a cost. A deal "too good to be true," usually is too good to be true, and the impact of changing the model in this fashion may end up being more expensive than they initially imagine.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Only, IMHO, because this current regime keeps trying to point back to it and stir it up.

This makes England and her allies nervous. I know the UK, the US, and others would like it put behind them...but when Argentine leaders keep talking like they are planning to get them back anyway, despite being defeated...it just means that the UK, the US, and others can't put it behind them...and that brings negative impact to Argentina.

May God hear you. Although with this current lot of mental deficients who know what is going to happen.

That is one of the problems with Argentine politics (they engage in political necrophilia) they all want to be Peron or Evita and think that they can regain the glory days of old. Unfortunately no one has the testicular fortitude to be politically incorrect and tell the truth.

Argentina needs a cross between the bravado and self-assuredness of Donald Trump and the Persona, foresight and speaking ability of Ronald Reagan.

Even though Reagan supported Britain (rightfully so), to me he was the best western leader of the twentieth century. If I say that in Buenos Aires I will be dragged down the street by my huevos.


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kwaigonegin

Colonel
May God hear you. Although with this current lot of mental deficients who know what is going to happen.

That is one of the problems with Argentine politics (they engage in political necrophilia) they all want to be Peron or Evita and think that they can regain the glory days of old. Unfortunately no one has the testicular fortitude to be politically incorrect and tell the truth.

Argentina needs a cross between the bravado and self-assuredness of Donald Trump and the Persona, foresight and speaking ability of Ronald Reagan.

Even though Reagan supported Britain (rightfully so), to me he was the best western leader of the twentieth century. If I say that in Buenos Aires I will be dragged down the street by my huevos.


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Sé cuidadoso Mi amigo... Otherwise Kirchner may send the Policia Federalis or DIPA to come get cha. Lol.
 
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