Cambodian-Thai border started gunfire

Finn McCool

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
I agree with pretty much everything johnboy has said. This isn't the 19th century anymore. These sorts of affairs are no longer profitable to fight over. The only way I could see this really touching off is if someone in Thailand looked at the possibility of a "quick, victorious" war against Cambodia and saw that as a way to deal with domestic political problems. But as johnboy said, war is as likely to exasperate tension in Thailand as it to make people fall in line with nationalism.

Thailand is also the only country in the world to operate the American built Stingray Light Tank. It's a pretty modern design but I've never seen anything like it in combat. Interesting design, I think it would be able to handle T-55s. Armor is light though; (Wikipedia says 23 mm but I'm not sure if that's true, I'm not even sure how much that is in relation to other armor types, I only know how relatively strong armor is not the absolute measurements!).
 
SteelBird

SteelBird

Colonel
johnboy said:
If you've ever been to Cambodia, you would know that the government would have a hard time conducting armored warfare on the border with Thailand. Basically, there is only one paved highway in that entire part of the country, and it was built in large part to ferry tourists overland from Thailand to Angkor. If that road were interdicted, you could never get enough fuel into the area to efficiently support even a company of tanks. If this thing escalated, the Thais would enjoy enormous logistical advantages. That, and not the tank inventory, would decide everything.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the Cambodians actually have, but the Thais use M-48A5s and M-60A3s. A T-55 with the latest improvements (and there are a TON of upgrade packages out there) wouldn't be so bad compared with the former. The T-55 is obsolete, but so is the M-48.
Click to expand...

Johnboy, since you're new to the forum, you might not know that there are a few members in this forum who are from Cambodia. I'm one of them. The Royal Cambodian Arm Force has a big deal of T-55 (I guess all their MBT are only T-55s) and recently imported 100 armor vehicles from Russia which about half are the T-55. I wonder why they decided to go with T-55; cheap, logistics, or maybe T-55 fit their needs. As for the war, I think HS is, at some degree, responsible for triggering the war between the two nations. He allowed the Red Shirt to operate from Cambodian territory and hire the ousted prime minister Thaksin Sinawatra (this sounds political and we shall quit it here).

As for guerrilla warfare, the Thai soldiers are no match with Cambodian ones. The area used to be the stronghold of the former Khmer Rouge. These people are those who fought the past several clashes and the Thai black shirt army did suffered from closed combat with them. This time, the Thai learns to be wiser that they use large scale of artillery shelling. The Cambodian soldiers do have BM-21 which is comparable or even superior to Thai artillery but for the long run, Cambodia can't afford the war. How much a BM-21 rocket costs? Cambodia has near 1 billion foreign aid every year but those money aren't for fighting a war with its neighbor and this explains why HS want to internationalize the issue.
 
Spartan95

Spartan95

Junior Member
johnboy said:
Another comment: in the broader sense, I doubt either side really this to turn into even an unofficial border war, let alone something bigger. Cambodia is desperately weak vis-a-vis Thailand. Within Thailand, the tourism industry would take a dim view of anything that closed that overland border crossing - I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't already bitching to whoever does their lobbying for them. Beyond that, posturing appeals to the yellow shirts, but a lengthy fracas would probably be unpopular and prove detrimental to them in the long run.
Click to expand...

While true, the difficulty is that Thailand cannot afford to be seen backing down from this issue. That was what brought down the Samak administration in Thailand even though they were just implementing the World Court ruling for the area.

The additional complication from within Thailand is that the military is very powerful. If the politicians attempt to rein them in on this issue, there may well be another coup. And this time, the military would justify it as defending Thailand's sovereignty.
 
SteelBird

SteelBird

Colonel
According to some local news and websites, Cambodia accused Thailand for using cluster munitions which are banned by international laws.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Further report said that the Thai side had their F-16 and F-18 (does Thailand have F-18?) flew over the dispute area. This is a show of their air-force power to Cambodia. Do you think Thailand eventually use their air-force? Is it the time that Cambodian leaders should consider modernize its air-force? What types of aircraft do you guys suggest Cambodia should go for? For me, 8 to 12 JF-17 and and half a dozen of K-8 should be enough for Cambodia.
 
Last edited:
T

Ting

Banned Idiot
I agree with SteelBird. But then Cambodia has the capability of being a spanner thrower in order to check the influx of tourists inside Thailand. They can exploit this aspect, however beyond a certain stage the Thais may respond more aggressively than the Canbodians can respond to.
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
SteelBird said:
According to some local news and websites, Cambodia accused Thailand for using cluster munitions which are banned by international laws.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Further report said that the Thai side had their F-16 and F-18 (does Thailand have F-18?) flew over the dispute area. This is a show of their air-force power to Cambodia. Do you think Thailand eventually use their air-force? Is it the time that Cambodian leaders should consider modernize its air-force? What types of aircraft do you guys suggest Cambodia should go for? For me, 8 to 12 JF-17 and and half a dozen of K-8 should be enough for Cambodia.
Click to expand...

Banned if you signed and ratified the treaty, but neither Thailand and Cambodia signed the Convention on Cluster Munitions. It's cheap shot on the part of Cambodia...
 
Spartan95

Spartan95

Junior Member
SteelBird said:
Further report said that the Thai side had their F-16 and F-18 (does Thailand have F-18?) flew over the dispute area. This is a show of their air-force power to Cambodia.
Click to expand...

Well, unfortunately for Thailand, 2 of their F-16s crashed today. These 2 were allegedly involved in the Cobra Gold series of exercises with the US military.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


2 Thai F-16 jet fighters crash during joint military exercise with US; pilots eject safely
Published on February 14, 2011

BANGKOK - Two Thai Air Force F-16 fighter planes taking part in a joint military exercise with the U.S. have crashed in northeastern Thailand. The pilots safely ejected from their jets.

Air Vice Marshal Montol Suchookorn says an investigation team has been sent to the scene of Monday morning's crash in Chaiyaphum province. The area is about 220 miles (350 kilometres) northeast of Bangkok.

He said he was unable to confirm reports the jets had collided.

The planes were taking part in Exercise Cobra Gold, an annual joint Thai-US military exercise in which personnel from Singapore, Japan, Indonesia, South Korea are also taking part.
Click to expand...

Interestingly, the location of the crash isn't too far from the Thailand-Cambodia border....
 
SteelBird

SteelBird

Colonel
I don't know this is just a coincidence or a power showcase to Cambodia.

Here is another version of news about Thai F-16 crash. Some even suggests that it is the black magic of Cambodia that makes the jets crash. However, the news denied that the crash was caused by mid-air collision. I wonder what type of accident would make two jets crash together?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Air force seeks clues to crash of F16 jets

Air force commander Ithaporn Suphawong has ordered an inquiry into the crash of two F16 fighters in Chaiyaphum.

Two pilots were forced to eject from the 4 billion baht jet fighters yesterday when they crashed during the Thai-US Cobra Gold joint military exercise.

Air force spokesman Monthon Satchukorn said the warplanes were part of a fleet of four one-seat F16 ADFs (air defence fighters) that took off from Wing1 in Nakhon Ratchasima at about 9am.

The ill-fated F16s lost contact with ground control at 10.20am and were later reported to have plummeted into the forest near Tat Tone waterfall, about 20km north of Chaiyaphum.

AVM Monthon said villagers who live near the waterfall alerted the authorities about the crash. Search and rescue helicopters and land vehicles were immediately sent to the area.

He confirmed news reports the pilots managed to jettison to safety before their planes crashed.

AVM Monthon said details of the crash were not yet available as the authorities still had to interview the pilots.

He dismissed speculation the jets were involved in a mid-air collision. If that were the case, the pilots might not have had enough time to eject.

The crash occurred as tensions along the Cambodian border remained high.

Two F16 jets were spotted last Thursday near the border in Si Sa Ket's Kantharalak district where there have been clashes between Thai and Cambodian troops over the past two weeks.

The air force insisted the two jets were taking part in Cobra Gold but admitted they had flown too close to the border during the military drill.

The air force spokesman brushed off a rumour that there could be a supernatural cause of the crash. "Do not believe in this sort of thing. I can't see how the crash could be related to that [black magic]. This is science: an engine problem perhaps, not superstition."
Click to expand...
 
Spartan95

Spartan95

Junior Member
Looks like this issue is going to drag on for awhile. Cambodia has urged for cease-fire and for ASEAN mediation.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Cambodia urges ASEAN ceasefire deal with Thailand
Posted: 18 February 2011 0208 hrs

PHNOM PENH: Cambodia said on Thursday it would press Thailand to sign a permanent ceasefire at a regional gathering next week as both countries remained at odds over how to settle a deadly border row.

Prime Minister Hun Sen said Cambodia would urge its neighbour to agree a peace deal during a meeting of foreign ministers from the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in Jakarta on Tuesday.

But Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva rejected the idea of ASEAN involvement in resolving the dispute, which erupted into armed clashes between the countries earlier this month.

Four days of heavy fighting near a 900-year-old border temple left at least 10 people dead and displaced thousands of families on both sides of the frontier.

"During the upcoming ASEAN meeting, Cambodia will request that a ceasefire agreement be signed between the Cambodian and Thai foreign ministers under the witness of ASEAN or the ASEAN chair," Hun Sen said at a press conference in the Cambodian capital.

He also confirmed that his country will call for ASEAN observers to come to the border area to help ensure a ceasefire holds.

The two sides are at odds over an area near the Preah Vihear temple, an 11th-century cliff-top ruin that belongs to Cambodia but whose designation as a World Heritage site sparked the ire of Thai nationalists.

Both countries blame each other for the crisis.

Thailand has repeatedly said it wants to resolve the row bilaterally, rejecting Cambodian requests for third-party mediation.

"I do not think we have to talk about this during the ASEAN meeting because we are not the ones that started the fight," Abhisit said on Thursday when asked about a ceasefire deal.

The United Nations Security Council on Monday urged the two nations to establish a "permanent ceasefire" but did not endorse a Cambodian request to deploy UN peacekeepers in the contested area.

It did, however, express support for mediation efforts by Indonesia, the current chair of the 10-nation ASEAN group.

The World Court ruled in 1962 that the Preah Vihear temple belonged to Cambodia, but both countries claim ownership of a 4.6-square-kilometre surrounding area.

Hun Sen told reporters legal officials were currently preparing documents to bring the case back to the World Court to ask for a clarification concerning the disputed plot of land.

"We will return to the Court to have it resolved," Hun Sen said.

- AFP/de
Click to expand...

Today's head-lines in printed media reported that Thailand has rejected the call for cease-fire.
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
The Thai government is under intense heat to get a upper hand in this matter or risk to lose power, worse another coup. So no surprise they'd want to play tough now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top