Burning Tankers, the Strait of Hormuz situation 6/2019

plawolf said:

When the likes of China, Russia and the EU are busy working on measures to counteract the US’ unilateral withdrawal from the UN backed nuclear deal that started all this?

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When has UN backing ever worked on anything against one of the big chairs at the Security council? The sole example was because the Russians were stupid enough to sit a meeting out and The PRC wasn’t recognized at the table.
Even with Russia and China that’s two vetos right now.

So you claim the US is blowing holes in Japanese and other allied states Tankers? That’s bunk unless you can provide more than a “smell”.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

When has UN backing ever worked on anything against one of the big chairs at the Security council? The sole example was because the Russians were stupid enough to sit a meeting out and The PRC wasn’t recognized at the table.
Even with Russia and China that’s two vetos right now.

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That seems like a very tangental nit pick. But there would be no UN backing unless the ‘big chairs’, as you call them, signed on in the first place; as they would have vetoed any resolution they did not like.

While you seem to think such blatant disregard of previous commitments is no big deal, but to me that goes to the very heart of the trustworthiness of a country. Because if you do not abide by international agreements you have signed your name on the dotted line to in the past, how is anyone supposed to trust anything you say or offer in the future?

So you claim the US is blowing holes in Japanese and other allied states Tankers? That’s bunk unless you can provide more than a “smell”.

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Please show me where I said it was the US blowing holes in tankers?

Besides, if I was so inclined, and had even a tiny budget of a few thousand dollars, I could easily fabricate ‘evidence’ on par with what the Pentagon has released thus far to point the finger at Iran and show it was Americans/British/Israelis/Saudis/Russians/Chinese or even bloody Aqua-man who dunnit.

And before you start, that is not to say that the Pentagon evidence is fabricated; just that it is exceptionally weak and entirely circumstantial. Yet the politicians and Western MSM are spinning it like it’s a smoking gun in a near carbon copy of how the Iraqi-WMD shitshow played out.

For a bit more money and a few right connections, I could have even organised a false flag mining or two. Which is precisely my point - there is zero objective and critical analysis of the evidence presented, only a lemming rush to toe the party line that Iran is to blame.

It seems precisely zero lessons had been learnt from the 2.4 million Iraqi deaths and trillions of dollars that it cost when this exact same ‘mistake’ was made last time.

Isn’t that exactly what a false flag would entail? Blowing a hole in the side of a tanker? I mean you can’t just CGI the side of a civilian tanker and hope no body takes a selfie when the ship pulls into port.

indirectly related is
China warns against opening 'Pandora's box' in Middle East
Updated 21:36, 18-Jun-2019

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Chinese State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi warned against opening "Pandora's box" in the Middle East after the United States announced the deployment of 1,000 additional troops to the region amid escalating tensions with Iran.

Wang made the comments on Tuesday at a news briefing after he met with his Syrian counterpart Walid Moallem. He also urged all sides to exercise restraint to ease tensions in the Gulf region.

Wang emphasized that the U.S. should change the practice of "maximum pressure," and added that "unilateralism has no basis under international law. Rather than resolving problems, it will create bigger crises."

He urged Iran to "make prudent decisions and not so easily abandon the nuclear agreement," while calling on all relevant parties to respect Iran's legitimate rights.

"China's determination to safeguard the comprehensive agreement has not changed," Wang stressed. "China has also worked closely with all parties to reconstruct the Arak heavy water reactor."

Wang and Moallem agreed that efforts should be made to oppose the bullying practices and safeguard the basic principles of international order to maintain peace and stability in the Middle East.

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ok think of it this way

why would Iran attack a Japanese tanker during the visit of the first Japanese prime minster to Iran in over 40 years?

Iran has never done things like this why now?

if US has every angle in the Persian Gulf covered where is the evidence for this?

and finally US strategy is "peace through strength" , if lets just say we take the US word on this, hasn't this strategy just failed? because B52 is there, USS Abraham Lincoln is there along with whole load of other things

yet strength has shown no deterrence?

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Isn’t that exactly what a false flag would entail? Blowing a hole in the side of a tanker? I mean you can’t just CGI the side of a civilian tanker and hope no body takes a selfie when the ship pulls into port.

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Uncle Sam can’t just hire someone to hire someone to hire someone to do the deed? It’s untraceable.

localizer said:

Uncle Sam can’t just hire someone to hire someone to hire someone to do the deed? It’s untraceable.

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The more people involved the weaker a conspiracy. I mean for goodness sake, The current administration can barely plan Dinner without Sixty leaks to the press from various unnamed sources. About a dozen books being published and vocal outings by Your favorite pundits decrying the Trump administration and demanding a forced change of government because they didn’t offer a Vegan option.
The bigger the conspiracy higher the risk of someone letting slip what is happening and despite the whole “Controlled American media”. These days any dirty tricks by this national security team would be outed in a second and used by the Chicken Noodle News or Militant Socialist News Bull Ship to try and restore viewership.

This whole false flag Narrative is just that. Unless you have evidence to the contrary it’s about as solid a Theory as anything put out by Flat earthers, 9/11 Truthers, Moon Landing doubters or Showed on Ancient Aliens.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

The more people involved the weaker a conspiracy. I mean for goodness sake, The current administration can barely plan Dinner without Sixty leaks to the press from various unnamed sources. About a dozen books being published and vocal outings by Your favorite pundits decrying the Trump administration and demanding a forced change of government because they didn’t offer a Vegan option.
The bigger the conspiracy higher the risk of someone letting slip what is happening and despite the whole “Controlled American media”. These days any dirty tricks by this national security team would be outed in a second and used by the Chicken Noodle News or Militant Socialist News Bull Ship to try and restore viewership.

This whole false flag Narrative is just that. Unless you have evidence to the contrary it’s about as solid a Theory as anything put out by Flat earthers, 9/11 Truthers, Moon Landing doubters or Showed on Ancient Aliens.

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If you are hunkering for a US righteous war against Iran for their alleged transgression, you have my full blessing. A lot of people in the world would like to have America go to war right about now, yugely. Why not? But I bet it's all about 2020 posturing, just pee a little bit and call it rain. MAGA .

TerraN_EmpirE said:

The more people involved the weaker a conspiracy. I mean for goodness sake, The current administration can barely plan Dinner without Sixty leaks to the press from various unnamed sources. About a dozen books being published and vocal outings by Your favorite pundits decrying the Trump administration and demanding a forced change of government because they didn’t offer a Vegan option.
The bigger the conspiracy higher the risk of someone letting slip what is happening and despite the whole “Controlled American media”. These days any dirty tricks by this national security team would be outed in a second and used by the Chicken Noodle News or Militant Socialist News Bull Ship to try and restore viewership.

This whole false flag Narrative is just that. Unless you have evidence to the contrary it’s about as solid a Theory as anything put out by Flat earthers, 9/11 Truthers, Moon Landing doubters or Showed on Ancient Aliens.

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You should also expect high standard of evidence for the pro-war position considering the ramifications.

You are assuming that I am pro war. But thus far I have produced what is available which is more than the counter narrative thus far. I am however waiting for forensics on the hills of the ships.

If I am hankering for anything it’s having more than just rhetoric of False flag operations Innuendo and insults or attempts at such don’t mean much when it’s just a bag of Popular bunk meant to cater only to the echo chamber of like minded.

asif iqbal said:

Iran has never done things like this why now?

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30 years ago they did. The reason then was that they were trapped in a blood letting against Iraq who kept blasting away Iran’s main oil production.
When the Iranians cut Iraqi’s Oil lines. Iraq got help from other Arab states who shipped it to them by tanker. So the Iranians started attacking Tankers.

The Iranians last year announced they would close the Strait.

Iran when it has wanted to make its displeasure known has made a habit of using Proxies as they know they don’t stand a chance in a conventional fight vs the US.

The US along with its withdrawal from the “Nuclear deal” that was never ratified as a treaty and as such isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. Removed Oil sanctions exemptions making deals for Iranian crude not worth it.
To keep prices low the Saudis have been upping production.
Meaning that Iranian Oil production has hit an all time low, they can’t even find someone willing to pay the mark up for black market.
They have been funding and bleeding in two wars including one against forces of the Saudi’s, UAE and Qatar.
The two ships in question were hauling product from Saudi Arabia. The UAE and Qatar.