Brother of Ling Jihua Reveals China's nuclear launch code and top secrets to US

Equation · Feb 6, 2016

manqiangrexue said:
LOL But they're for totally different reasons. Snowden defected because he said that he could not stand to be a part of the NSA spy network anymore, depriving Americans of their rights to privacy. Ling Jihua was really corrupt and tried something crazy to save himself from what he deserves... it didn't work LOL

Never the less both men has something that their government didn't want the public to know. Both use government secret info as leverage in case they get into trouble. Both are seeking asylum. It's just that Snowden has far more juicy data than Ling Jihua does.

Janiz · Feb 6, 2016

AssassinsMace said:
If this was about having insurance, Ling Jihua would've had to tell the Chinese authorities of his extortion. So when was his brother suppose to release the documents? Enough time to close the backdoors? That would be a reason someone in the US government leaked it to the media because it was worthless by the time they got the documents. I mean the guy was stupid enough to extort himself from a prison sentence for corruption to the death penalty for treason.

I wouldn't call anyone names such as 'stupid' or anything similar if you don't know that you can get death sentence for corruption...

Most of you try to play this down and already know that those documents are 'worthless' as US intelligence leaked informations that they got it (sic!). There's absolutely no info on what was there. All we know that many of them had top secret rank and are about PRC's national security. And we know that Chinese agents had an operation that was aimed at people like Ling Wancheng to persuade him to come back to China (which they failed it seems). He's under US umbrella already.

Snowden had some documents about a thing that all people around knew. That US spies on it's citizens. Wow. That's just as new thing as that PRC and almost every country in the world is doing the same. Now he's PR puppet. Ling won't be a puppet for TV shows. You won't see him there. He had documents, knew people from the top PRC government etc. That's a big difference.

TerraN_EmpirE · Feb 6, 2016

Equation said:
Never the less both men has something that their government didn't want the public to know. Both use government secret info as leverage in case they get into trouble. Both are seeking asylum. It's just that Snowden has far more juicy data than Ling Jihua does.

Again I think you're missing critical parts here. Snowden did not just flee and hand the documents over to the PRC or Russians he Posted them online and Made his escape as public as possible.
In this case, we have a individual who took the file, smuggled them to his brother, was arrested and his brother gave the files to the US Intelligence services, he didn't hand them over to Newspapers or post them all over the Web.

That would be a reason someone in the US government leaked it to the media

again the assumption that the US Leaked it out. Remember that the US Media sat on this story for over a month! If the US Alphabet soup of agencies wanted the US citizenry to know of their victory, why was it a Hong Kong news outlet that broke it first followed by Australian newspapers? Why was it not on the Free Beacon back in December? Why wait to leak into a captured news cycle? If they wanted to make a grand slam dunk of victory they would want this story on the front page of every newspaper and leading the Fox,MSNBC, CNN, Blumberg, MSN, PBS, ABC,CBS,NBS, and BBC news cycles but because it hit the news cycle around the Iowa caucuses it was buried. The news cycles leads were Cruz took first Trump Faultier, Hillary Feels the Bern. Not US gets Chinese Intelligence golden egg.
I am sorry.
A US leak would have placed lines to US Media that would have feed to Hong Kong media not the other way around.
The assumption is also that the US government would have wanted this to be a know event, But if they let the world know about this then it limits the effectiveness of it. Yes Ling was already imprisoned but only the US government and the PRC knew about his brother and possible involvement. When you broadcast that you have data it tells your enemy to change there plans. When you broadcast who gave you data you make that person a target, one need only tack back a few pages to see the calls for blood.

I think this wasn't Washington, I think this was Beijing. The leadership was telling the US that they know all about the Ling dealings and that if they think they have anything really useful its expiration date is running out. They were also trying to use the events of the exchange to rally support for the continuation of the Anticorruption purges, as well as send a Message to Wenchung that they are not very happy with Him. They want to at the very least burn him from any contacts or acquaintances with any loyalty to the PRC. As well as send the kiss of Death by broadcasting him as a traitor.

MwRYum · Feb 6, 2016

manqiangrexue said:
Dude, you didn't READ the thing fully. The documents cannot be fresher than 2012 because Ling was removed from his position in July of 2012 and stopped having access to them. The Chinese had to have definitely triggered the release of the documents knowingly because these documents were used "to dissuade Chinese authorities from taking action against Ling Jihua." You cannot use that to dissuade somebody without telling them that you have these documents! In other words, Ling Jihua told them, "Do not mess with me or my brother in the US will provide secret documents to the FBI!" And they arrested him anyway (obviously after they did their investigations on what he had and when).

TerraN_EmpirE:
"...the fact that Ling Jihua managed seemingly transmit sensitive data to his brother out of China's boarders could encourage others to try the same."
Remember that Ling Jihuan and Ling WanCheng are not American spies; their goal is not to transmit Chinese intelligence to the US. Their goal was to successfully threaten the PRC from reeling Ling Jihua in for corruption, so it makes no sense for WanCheng to secretly cooperate with the FBI and hide extra, more sensitive documents without telling the PRC. It is in their interest, if anything, to make it look to the PRC like they have even more sensitive documents than what they did have. In the end, they failed, because they failed to secure Ling Jihua's safety. If anything, this serves to dissuade other PRC officials from trying to cover up their corruption with threats of security leak; it sends the message that you don't bargain with the PRC.

Leaking state secret of such caliber, updated or not, is about the most cardinal of sins in China. Ling Jihua will be more dead than dead - like, usually even sentenced to death sentences would be commuted to life imprisonment, but now, only "get dragged out and shot in the head" kind of deal is waiting for him. In short, he's really dead meat.

Also, it's not just a matter of dated or not, what he stole are stuff that concern with protocols which could not be totally revamped. In short, it's damaging.

AssassinsMace · Feb 6, 2016

Janiz said:
I wouldn't call anyone names such as 'stupid' or anything similar if you don't know that you can get death sentence for corruption...

Most of you try to play this down and already know that those documents are 'worthless' as US intelligence leaked informations that they got it (sic!). There's absolutely no info on what was there. All we know that many of them had top secret rank and are about PRC's national security. And we know that Chinese agents had an operation that was aimed at people like Ling Wancheng to persuade him to come back to China (which they failed it seems). He's under US umbrella already.

Snowden had some documents about a thing that all people around knew. That US spies on it's citizens. Wow. That's just as new thing as that PRC and almost every country in the world is doing the same. Now he's PR puppet. Ling won't be a puppet for TV shows. You won't see him there. He had documents, knew people from the top PRC government etc. That's a big difference.

Corruption doesn't always result in a death sentence in China. Treason does. That's stupid especially when he thought he could get what from the authorities from extortion? Maybe a free trip to the US in exile so he and his brother could spend all the corrupt money they accumulated? Then maybe Ling Jihua could attempt to deal for more from the US? Yeah he sealed a death sentence when he decide to extort state secrets.

You're spinning so much to save a victory... I'm going by one undeniable fact alone that this story was leaked to the public. If there were any valuable information, they wouldn't have leaked anything at all. Isn't it suppose to a big win to get your hands on China's nuclear codes? And now you don't have them because celebrating is more important to you than national security. The Chinese didn't know what the US had. But someone in the US decided he wanted to brag about it for America. Now the Chinese know where to fix the problem. How about that for stupid on the US side... if there were really any important information. That's what it means if someone was so stupid on the American side that they valued bragging about it just to make people like you jump and cheer for high-fives over national security.

Sorry to inform you but before Snowden, Obama was peddling that China was the only country doing that. Hence why he was ganging up the world to punish China for crimes the US was doing itself. Then Snowden surfaced and ruined it for Obama. The charge is Snowden is responsible directly for deaths because of what he revealed. You want to admit your side is willing to lie about that to exaggerate consequences for a political end? But not in this case, right?

Unlike you I don't think Americans are that stupid. You can spin a win all you want. If the information passed turned out to be worthless from the beginning, then you can celebrate and brag and taunt all you want because no harm done. If there were any important information, then the leaker from the US side turned spying gold into worthless lead. I think that would be big news if a leaker from inside the US government just ruined it all for US national security. Have we heard anything of the sort happening?

So this was reported for people like you to believe the US intelligence services are doing their job after essentially portraying China as raping the US of secrets left and right. The mighty US being raped on and on and nothing being done about it. When you keep being fed that, Americans are going to start to wonder why their government isn't doing anything about it. This story is a bone being thrown out at Americans to stave off outrage that might get the establishment ousted from power. Just like how Trump and Sanders are scaring the establishment because after all, the two are only calling out what their respective parties have promised to do when elected but never followed through.

antiterror13 · Feb 7, 2016

Would it be possible that it was part of information war? that the "leak" was intentionally leaked to give a misinformation to the US

Ling Wancheng would have close family still living in China and I am sure they would hate him to death.

Not sure whether Ling Jihua would get a death penalty ... I think it would be much worse than that. It's really idiotic to ransom PRC government

The more I read how corrupt Ling Jihua was, very disgusted, especially his son

TerraN_EmpirE · Feb 7, 2016

Would it be possible that it was part of information war? that the "leak" was intentionally leaked to give a misinformation to the US

With any information hand over that is a distinct possibility.could this all be a farce meant to paint this as genuine information when in truth it is a bundle of lies.
Yet here is the Rub, because of the leak Ling the official is now likely to be facing a traitor's death. Is Ling the Brother convicted PLA loyalists enough to allow his brother to Die to cover a lie? Or is he loyal Brother enough to hand the data over even if it means his brothers death? And how close is Wechang to his family back in the mainland?
The Handlers in US Intelligence have to have played devils advocate for this a million times. Its a safe bet they took the package from Wechang but believe it? Some want to paint the US intelligence as desperate, but they cannot afford to be stupid. They will have vetted it to see if they can find anything to cooperate it. But they always have to be suspicious of it.

plawolf · Feb 7, 2016

AssassinsMace said:
Corruption doesn't always result in a death sentence in China. Treason does. That's stupid especially when he thought he could get what from the authorities from extortion? Maybe a free trip to the US in exile so he and his brother could spend all the corrupt money they accumulated? Then maybe Ling Jihua could attempt to deal for more from the US? Yeah he sealed a death sentence when he decide to extort state secrets.

You're spinning so much to save a victory... I'm going by one undeniable fact alone that this story was leaked to the public. If there were any valuable information, they wouldn't have leaked anything at all. Isn't it suppose to a big win to get your hands on China's nuclear codes? And now you don't have them because celebrating is more important to you than national security. The Chinese didn't know what the US had. But someone in the US decided he wanted to brag about it for America. Now the Chinese know where to fix the problem. How about that for stupid on the US side... if there were really any important information. That's what it means if someone was so stupid on the American side that they valued bragging about it just to make people like you jump and cheer for high-fives over national security.

Sorry to inform you but before Snowden, Obama was peddling that China was the only country doing that. Hence why he was ganging up the world to punish China for crimes the US was doing itself. Then Snowden surfaced and ruined it for Obama. The charge is Snowden is responsible directly for deaths because of what he revealed. You want to admit your side is willing to lie about that to exaggerate consequences for a political end? But not in this case, right?

Unlike you I don't think Americans are that stupid. You can spin a win all you want. If the information passed turned out to be worthless from the beginning, then you can celebrate and brag and taunt all you want because no harm done. If there were any important information, then the leaker from the US side turned spying gold into worthless lead. I think that would be big news if a leaker from inside the US government just ruined it all for US national security. Have we heard anything of the sort happening?

So this was reported for people like you to believe the US intelligence services are doing their job after essentially portraying China as raping the US of secrets left and right. The mighty US being raped on and on and nothing being done about it. When you keep being fed that, Americans are going to start to wonder why their government isn't doing anything about it. This story is a bone being thrown out at Americans to stave off outrage that might get the establishment ousted from power. Just like how Trump and Sanders are scaring the establishment because after all, the two are only calling out what their respective parties have promised to do when elected but never followed through.

I think we need to be a bit more objectionable and and avoid spin.

The brothers tried to blackmail the Chinese government, when that failed, turning the documents over to the US wasn't about spite, it was about survival.

Wechang had to know that there would be consequences to him even trying this, when his brother was arrested, he knew the gambit failed and feared he was next, so ran to the Americans, trading secrets for protection.

In order to blackmail at all, the brothers would have had to tell the Chinese government that they had state secrets.

As soon as they did that, Chinese counter intelligence would have treated every file Jihua's office every dealt with or had access to as compromised and taken steps to minimise any damage.

The reason for the Americans to leak it probably because the Chinese have closed very vulnerability, so there is no longer any operational advantage to be had from keeping it a secret. So they are now trying to get as much PR benefit as they can from this.

Skywatcher · Feb 7, 2016

AssassinsMace said:
I can personally think up a lot of scenarios going either way but the most important fact here was this story was leaked to the public. That alone tells you the US got nothing to very little from these documents. Mentioning what they have just makes it easier for Chinese authorities to close doors and plug possible leaks in the future. The US just shot themselves in the foot. Which I have to conclude that's not the case because the information was virtually worthless from the beginning. If it were important information, who ever leaked it to the media should be facing charges themselves.

TerraN_EmpirE said:
With any information hand over that is a distinct possibility.could this all be a farce meant to paint this as genuine information when in truth it is a bundle of lies.
Yet here is the Rub, because of the leak Ling the official is now likely to be facing a traitor's death. Is Ling the Brother convicted PLA loyalists enough to allow his brother to Die to cover a lie? Or is he loyal Brother enough to hand the data over even if it means his brothers death? And how close is Wechang to his family back in the mainland?
The Handlers in US Intelligence have to have played devils advocate for this a million times. Its a safe bet they took the package from Wechang but believe it? Some want to paint the US intelligence as desperate, but they cannot afford to be stupid. They will have vetted it to see if they can find anything to cooperate it. But they always have to be suspicious of it.

MSS could fake Jihua's death...

But then if someone stumbles across him, then we Americans definitely know that it's a scame.

AssassinsMace · Feb 7, 2016

plawolf said:
I think we need to be a bit more objectionable and and avoid spin.

The brothers tried to blackmail the Chinese government, when that failed, turning the documents over to the US wasn't about spite, it was about survival.

Wechang had to know that there would be consequences to him even trying this, when his brother was arrested, he knew the gambit failed and feared he was next, so ran to the Americans, trading secrets for protection.

In order to blackmail at all, the brothers would have had to tell the Chinese government that they had state secrets.

As soon as they did that, Chinese counter intelligence would have treated every file Jihua's office every dealt with or had access to as compromised and taken steps to minimise any damage.

The reason for the Americans to leak it probably because the Chinese have closed very vulnerability, so there is no longer any operational advantage to be had from keeping it a secret. So they are now trying to get as much PR benefit as they can from this.

You haven't said anything that's different what I said. And it would've been best on the US's part not to give any hints that the brother was in contact with them. The Chinese would had to have been wondering if it was a bluff. But since the leak to the media gave specifics, the Chinese authorities would know where to concentrate first instead of the just going through everything they think Ling Jihua had possible access. But because it was leaked to media at all, the US showed its hand that they got nothing. But then they wouldn't care hence why all the celebrating that they got a fake win against China.

Now on Ling Jinhua's part...He would be extra stupid if he gave specifics to what he took because China can close the doors before the time his brother was suppose to go hand everything to the US. Usually when you extort people, the extortionist is hidden in a safe place out of the hands of the people that are being extorted. He was never going to be getting away with this crime. So it was pure stupidity or it was out of spite knowing he was never going to get away with it.

It's all speculation on the details but the one undeniable fact is the story was leaked to the media and says a lot of the value of the information handed over. It could've been only one document out of all of them that was important and you don't let any of it go public. Was it a rogue idiot in the US government that let the information out? That's treason in itself. That would be big news especially if the people who claim this was a huge win for the US as to the importance of the information. Yet we hear nothing of anyone arrested in the news. The conclusion is all of it was worthless or was easily made worthless information and the US got nothing from them. Yeah if they spent a lot of time and money vetting the information to then find out it was all worthless, I imagine some people in the US government would be quite perturbed and would be open to salvage a big waste of time by putting a story out in the public that they got a big win in the espionage game to embarrass China just for public morale.

Brother of Ling Jihua Reveals China's nuclear launch code and top secrets to US

Equation

Lieutenant General

Janiz

Senior Member

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King

MwRYum

Major

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General

antiterror13

Brigadier

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King

plawolf

Lieutenant General

Skywatcher

Captain

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General