Branding China

montyp165

Senior Member
I've found that atm the best known and respected Chinese brands outside of the usual suspects like Lenovo or Haier are usually known primarily by high-end customers in specific product lines such as Tianjin Seagull (for watches), Oppo (for consumer electronics), Fenix (for LED flashlights) or even Geely (for owning Volvo). Most haven't had the critical mass yet of a Sony or Panasonic in terms of mass market recognition since these companies are still developing and expanding their marketing methods on top of product development, so it definitely does take more time and effort than may be preferable.
 

hkbc

Junior Member
China also banned shellfish from the US West Coast, supposedly for high levels of arsenic. But given the timing and the unusually broad embargo, it's possible the ban is more politics than reality.

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Too true, politics gets everywhere, but rejecting a consignment for poor quality control is not really the same as a ban besides reading the article you posted it does stay "NOAA stopped issuing certification for shellfish exports last Friday" which means the US Agency is stopping exports everywhere, not just China banning imports which would seem to indicate a real underlying problem.

I guess this hilights the problem with "Brand China" even when you're trying to stop your population from being poisoned and the offenders, agree everyone still thinks it's just a political game!
 
China is a big enough market on its own that it doesn't need a brand recognized in developed economies. Also it's a young and continually growing market which is very desirable. Mature/developed markets are saturated. Any begging fro consumers to buy is going to be the other way around. And remember when you look at Forbes richest Chinese list, very few of the companies these people run have any presence in foreign markets. Those that do aren't anywhere near being number one in those markets.

To be all fair and honest, it depends where the demand is coming from. A J-7 won't need brand recognition from the First World, but if they're trying to outperform the Samsung phones, iPhones, and all those, then brand recognition is mandatory.
 
I think you can expect to see this situation start to reverse itself dramatically by the end of the decade and into the next.
If you have labour, you can make things, if you have Capital you can "Innovate" and create effective brands.

The story of China over the last thirty years has been the employment of its labour, using others Capital and to use this to develop know-how, expertise and to build Capital. We are now at the period where sufficient Know-how and expertise have been accrued and enough Capital of their own own, accumulated, to be able to put them together and create very effective presence in the Global Market.

One of the more recent and more risible arguments of the last decade is that the Chinese Education and Industrial System mitigates against Innovation. Its simply not true. Very few Individuals actually have any ability to innovate and these will find there way through, irrespective of the obstacles. If their own country is unable to provide the Industrial/Economic Infrastructure to support Innovation, then the Innovators will simply move.

In the West, the "Innovation" argument has been little more than a fig leaf to cover the embarrassment of Post Industrialisation. Very few extra real Innovators have been produced, simply an army of very irritating pretentious idiots, who are really clueless self publicists.

In China however, they have the ability to produce the same proportion of innovators as does anywhere else. The difference now is that China has the money to support them and there is a nation of skilled technicians and engineers to help them realise and deliver their projects, on time and on budget.

I don't agree completely on the West not-innovative argument though. I think we've all seen a fair share of innovators rising up throughout the century, and also many more at grassroots level.
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On the other hand, I wonder how much does ethics come into hand in spurring innovations? This is because while it's objectively "creative" to use some other substance to replace what's usually used in the milk formula, it's useless because it's unusable and kills people. And sh!t like those cause more harm than good, even/especially from business perspective.
 

advill

Junior Member
Agreed that ethical practices are important e.g. food-stuffs production in China & elsewhere. My hunch is the Chinese relevant authorities will continue to stamp down on the recalcitrant manufacturers - a few received the death sentences. China will have to take precautionary measures whether products or services exported globally. Anyway, Chinese producers are not only the " commercial bad guys" - an example: a Western manufacturer of "breast implants (silicon)" have caused many deaths among women throughout the world. We can debate who are the bad or good guys, but to no avail, as there will still be a few like them. But what the Commercial World & Consumers will be carefully watching is : will there be similar serious & intentional "cock-ups" done irresponsibly in the future? I doubt any country including China wants a Bad Name for Biz Internationally - "Bad for Biz".



QUOTE=airsuperiority;260977]I don't agree completely on the West not-innovative argument though. I think we've all seen a fair share of innovators rising up throughout the century, and also many more at grassroots level.
-----------------


On the other hand, I wonder how much does ethics come into hand in spurring innovations? This is because while it's objectively "creative" to use some other substance to replace what's usually used in the milk formula, it's useless because it's unusable and kills people. And sh!t like those cause more harm than good, even/especially from business perspective.[/QUOTE]
 

Kurt

Junior Member
The usual bashing back starts?

China is branded and not in a positive light. That has to do with obtainable information, not just from media releases, but also from work stays in China. This last part is more important as these are valued insights by professionals into mutual perceptions. It's a running joke that your laptop will be hacked in East Asia any minute you leave it unattended.
There are food scandals in Europe, no doubt, but do they have the same degree of criminal energy and negative health effects as elsewhere?

On the positive side for China are the OECD results on the education system in Hong Kong and Shanghai. It's a long way from people being shanghaied to getting such a good education. There still remains a lack of reports on genuine inventors resulting from these school systems.


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Is this an original document? Then it highlights how the chinese gouvernment brands the Western countries and tries to brand itself in conflict with them. Not a good start for positive branding in many fields, because it undermines mutual trust:
Communiqué on the Current State of the Ideological Sphere
A Notice from the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China’s General Office

Provinces, autonomous regions, municipalities directly under the Party committee, Central ministries and state organs, Party ministries, People’s Liberation Army headquarters, major Party committees, and Party leadership groups of civilian organizations: This notice “A Communiqué on the Current State of the Ideological Sphere” has been approved by the central leadership, and is herewith distributed to you. Please thoroughly implement its suggestions.

April 22, 2013
(This document has been sent to local divisional levels)
Introduction

Since the Party’s Eighteenth National Congress, under General Secretary Xi Jinping’s strong central leadership, the nation triumphantly convened the National People’s Congress and the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, the Party’s and nation’s various undertakings have made a good start, and the general mood of the Party and Government has been constantly improving. Cohesion among our nation’s people has become stronger and our confidence in our path, our theory, and our system has become more resolute. Mainstream ideology is becoming healthier and more vigorous. The spirit of the Party’s Eighteenth National Congress and General Secretary Xi Jinping’s series of important speeches have unified the thought of the entire Party, the entire country, and the entire people enormously. The ideological foundation of our united struggle is unceasingly solidifying.

The new session of the central leadership group has: put forth a series of new principles for conduct in political administration, furnished an interpretation of the Chinese dream of the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation, improved our work-style, maintained close ties with the masses, rigorously enforced diligence and thrift, opposed extravagance and waste, increased vigor in the fight against corruption, and won the widespread endorsement of cadres and the masses. We persist in upholding scientific development as the main theme, accelerating economic transformation as the main thread, and increasing the quality and efficiency of the economy as the core. The outlook for our nation’s economic development continues to be favorable, and the people’s faith in China’s economic prospects has risen. In an effort to improve the people’s livelihood, we are putting forth new measures to benefit the people so they may look forward to a better future: disseminating thought on the cultural front as the most important political task; studying, implementing, and advancing the spirit of the Eighteenth Party Congress; rapidly arousing mass fervor, proclaiming that socialism with Chinese characteristics and the Chinese dream are the main theme of our age; expanding and strengthening positive propaganda; strengthening guidance on deep-seated problems; strengthening the management of ideological fronts; promoting unification of thought; concentrating our strength and implementing the development of a positive atmosphere and providing spiritual strength to the party and nation.
Noteworthy Problems Related to the Current State of the Ideological Sphere

While fully approving of the ideological mainstream, we must also clearly see the ideological situation as a complicated, intense struggle. Currently, the following false ideological trends, positions, and activities all deserve note:

1. Promoting Western Constitutional Democracy: An attempt to undermine the current leadership and the socialism with Chinese characteristics system of governance.

Western Constitutional Democracy has distinct political properties and aims. Among these are the separation of powers, the multi-party system, general elections, independent judiciaries, nationalized armies, and other characteristics. These are the capitalist class’ concepts of a nation, political model, and system design. The concept of constitutional democracy originated a long time ago, and recently the idea has been hyped ever more frequently.

This is mainly expressed the following ways: In commemorating the thirtieth anniversary of the enactment of the [Chinese] Constitution, [some people] hold up the banners of “defending the constitution” and “rule of law.” They attack the Party’s leaders for placing themselves above the constitution, saying China “has a constitution but no constitutional government.” Some people still use the phrase “constitutional dream” to distort the Chinese dream of the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation, saying things like “constitutional democracy is the only way out” and “China should catch up with the rest of the world’s trend toward constitutional governance.” The point of publicly proclaiming Western constitutional democracy’s key points is to oppose the party’s leadership and implementation of its constitution and laws. Their goal is to use Western constitutional democracy to undermine the Party’s leadership, abolish the People’s Democracy, negate our country’s constitution as well as our established system and principles, and bring about a change of allegiance by bringing Western political systems to China.

2. Promoting “universal values” in an attempt to weaken the theoretical foundations of the Party’s leadership.

The goal of espousing “universal values” is to claim that the West’s value system defies time and space, transcends nation and class, and applies to all humanity.

This is mainly expressed in the following ways: [The people who espouse universal values] believe Western freedom, democracy, and human rights are universal and eternal. This is evident in their distortion of the Party’s own promotion of democracy, freedom, equality, justice, rule of law, and other such values; their claim that the CCP’s acceptance of universal values is a victory for universal values,” that “the West’s values are the prevailing norm for all human civilization,” that “only when China accepts Western values will it have a future,” and that “Reform and Opening is just a process of gradually accepting universal rights.”

Given Western nations’ long-term dominance in the realms of economics, military affairs, science, and technology, these arguments can be confusing and deceptive. The goal [of such slogans] is to obscure the essential differences between the West’s value system and the value system we advocate, ultimately using the West’s value systems to supplant the core values of Socialism.

3. Promoting civil society in an attempt to dismantle the ruling party’s social foundation.

Civil society is a socio-political theory that originated in the West. It holds that in the social sphere, individual rights are paramount and ought to be immune to obstruction by the state. For the past few years, the idea of civil society has been adopted by Western anti-China forces and used as a political tool. Additionally, some people with ulterior motives within China have begun to promote these ideas.

This is mainly expressed in the following ways:

Promoting civil society and Western-style theories of governance, they claim that building a civil society in China is a precondition for the protection of individual rights and forms the basis for the realization of constitutional democracy. Viewing civil society as a magic bullet for advancing social management at the local level, they have launched all kinds of so-called citizen’s movements.

Advocates of civil society want to squeeze the Party out of leadership of the masses at the local level, even setting the Party against the masses, to the point that their advocacy is becoming a serious form of political opposition.

4. Promoting Neoliberalism, attempting to change China’s Basic Economic System.

Neoliberalism advocates unrestrained economic liberalization, complete privatization, and total marketization and it opposes any kind of interference or regulation by the state. Western countries, led by the United States, carry out their Neoliberal agendas under the guise of “globalization,” visiting catastrophic consequences upon Latin America, the Soviet Union, and Eastern Europe, and have also dragged themselves into the international financial crisis from they have yet to recover.

This is mainly expressed in the following ways:

[Neoliberalism’s advocates] actively promote the “market omnipotence theory.” They claim our country’s macroeconomic control is strangling the market’s efficiency and vitality and they oppose public ownership, arguing that China’s state-owned enterprises are “national monopolies,” inefficient, and disruptive of the market economy, and should undergo “comprehensive privatization.” These arguments aim to change our country’s basic economic infrastructure and weaken the government’s control of the national economy.

5. Promoting the West’s idea of journalism, challenging China’s principle that the media and publishing system should be subject to Party discipline.

Some people, under the pretext of espousing “freedom of the press,” promote the West’s idea of journalism and undermine our country’s principle that the media should be infused with the spirit of the Party.

This is mainly expressed in the following ways:

Defining the media as “society’s public instrument” and as the “Fourth Estate;” attacking the Marxist view of news and promote the “free flow of information on the Internet;” slandering our country’s efforts to improve Internet management by calling them a crackdown on the Internet; claiming that the media is not governed by the rule of law but by the arbitrary will of the leadership; and calling for China to promulgate a Media Law based on Western principles. [Some people] also claim that China restricts freedom of the press and bang on about abolishing propaganda departments. The ultimate goal of advocating the West’s view of the media is to hawk the principle of abstract and absolute freedom of press, oppose the Party’s leadership in the media, and gouge an opening through which to infiltrate our ideology.

6. Promoting historical nihilism, trying to undermine the history of the CCP and of New China.

The goal of historical nihilism, in the guise of “reassessing history,” is to distort Party history and the history of New China.

This is mainly expressed in the following ways:

Rejecting the revolution; claiming that the revolution led by the Chinese Communist Party resulted only in destruction; denying the historical inevitability in China’s choice of the Socialist road, calling it the wrong path, and the Party’s and new China’s history a “continuous series of mistakes”; rejecting the accepted conclusions on historical events and figures, disparaging our Revolutionary precursors, and vilifying the Party’s leaders. Recently, some people took advantage of Comrade Mao Zedong’s 120th birthday in order to deny the scientific and guiding value of Mao Zedong thought. Some people try to cleave apart the period that preceded Reform and Opening from the period that followed, or even to set these two periods in opposition to one another. By rejecting CCP history and the history of New China, historical nihilism seeks to fundamentally undermine the CCP’s historical purpose, which is tantamount to denying the legitimacy of the CCP’s long-term political dominance.

7. Questioning Reform and Opening and the socialist nature of socialism with Chinese characteristics.

For the past several years, the discussion of reform has been unceasing, with all kinds of voices joining one after another. Some views clearly deviate from socialism with Chinese characteristics.

This is mainly expressed in the following ways:

Some blame the contradictions and problems of development on Reform and Opening. They say “Reform and opening up has gone too far” and that “we have deviated from our Socialist orientation.” They question whether or not what China is doing now still truly is Socialism, or they just call it “Capitalist Socialism,” “State Capitalism,” or “New Bureaucratic Capitalism.” Others say “reform is still distant and hasn’t be realized” or that “reform of the political system lags behind and obstructs reform of the economy.” They bang on about how we should use Western standards to achieve so-called “thorough reform.” Essentially, they oppose the general and specific policies emanating from the road taken at the Third Plenum of the Eleventh Party Congress and they oppose socialism with Chinese characteristics.

These mistaken views and ideas exist in great numbers in overseas media and reactionary publications. They penetrate China through the Internet and underground channels and they are disseminated on domestic Internet forums, blogs, and microblogs, They also appear in public lectures, seminars, university classrooms, class discussion forums, civilian study groups, and individual publications. If we allow any of these ideas to spread, they will disturb people’s existing consensus on important issues like which flag to raise, which road to take, which goals to pursue, etc., and this will disrupt our nation’s stable progress on reform and development.

Western anti-China forces and internal “dissidents” are still actively trying to infiltrate China’s ideological sphere and challenge our mainstream ideology. Some of their latest major efforts include: Some people have disseminated open letters and declarations and have organized petition-signings to vocalize requests for political reforms, improvement of human rights, release of “political prisoners,” “reversing the verdict on ‘6/4’[the Tiananmen Massacre],” and other such political demands; they have made a fuss over asset disclosure by officials, fighting corruption with the Internet, media supervision of government, and other sensitive hot-button issues, all of which stoke dissatisfaction with the Party and government. Western embassies, consulates, media operations, and NGOs operating inside China under various covers are spreading Western ideas and values and are cultivating so-called “anti-government forces.” Cooking up anti-government publications overseas. Within China’s borders, some private organizations are creating reactionary underground publications, and still others are filming documentaries on sensitive subject matter, disseminating political rumors, and defaming the party and the national leadership. Those manipulating and hyping the Tibetan self-immolations, manufacturing the violent terrorist attacks in Xinjiang, and using the ethnic and religious issues to divide and break up [the nation]. Accelerating infiltration of the Internet and illegal gatherings within our borders. “Dissidents” and people identified with “rights protection” are active. Some of them are working together with Western anti-China forces, echoing each other and relying on each other’s support. This clearly indicates that the contest between infiltration and anti-infiltration efforts in the ideological sphere is as severe as ever, and so long as we persist in CCP leadership and socialism with Chinese characteristics, the position of Western anti-China forces to pressure for urgent reform won’t change, and they’ll continue to point the spearhead of Westernizing, splitting, and “Color Revolutions” at China. In the face of these threats, we must not let down our guard or decrease our vigilance.
Pay Close Attention to Work in the Ideological Sphere.

Historical experience has proven that failures in the economic sphere can result in major disorder, and failure in the ideological sphere can result in major disorders as well. Confronting the very real threat of Western anti-China forces and their attempt at carrying out Westernization, splitting, and “Color Revolutions,” and facing the severe challenge of today’s ideological sphere, all levels of Party and Government, especially key leaders, must pay close attention to their work in the ideological sphere and firmly seize their leadership authority and dominance.

1. Strengthen leadership in the ideological sphere.

Party members and governments of all levels must become fully aware that struggles in the ideological sphere are perpetual, complex, and excruciating; you must strengthen awareness of the current political situation, big picture, responsibility, and risks. Leaders at all levels of government, you must strengthen your sense of responsibility—make work in the ideological sphere a high priority in your daily agenda, routinely analyze and study new developments in the ideological sphere, react swiftly and effectively, and preemptively resolve all problems in the ideological sphere.

2. Guide our party member and leaders to distinguish between true and false theories.

Forcefully resist influential and harmful false tides of thoughts, help people distinguish between truth and falsehood, and solidify their understanding. Party members, especially high-level leaders, must become adept at tackling problems from political, big-picture, strategic, and theoretical perspective. They must clearly recognize the essence of false ideas and viewpoints, both their theoretical falsehood and the practical political harm they can cause. We must have a firm approach and clear-cut stance toward major political principles, issues of right and wrong, what to support and what to oppose. We must uphold strict and clear discipline, maintaining a high-level unity with the Party Central Committee under the leadership of General Secretary Xi Jinping in thought, political stance, and action. We must not permit the dissemination of opinions that oppose the Party’s theory or political line, the publication of views contrary to decisions that represent the central leadership’s views, or the spread of political rumors that defame the image of the Party or the nation.

3. Unwavering adherence to the principle of the Party’s control of media.

The [principle of the Party’s control of media] stems from our political system and the nature of our media. We must maintain the correct political direction. We must firmly hold fast to the principle of the media’s Party spirit and social responsibility, and that in political matters it must be of one heart and mind with the Party. We must persist in correct guidance of public opinion, insisting that the correct political orientation suffuse every domain and process in political engagement, form, substance, and technology. We must give high priority to building both the leadership and rank and file in the sphere of media work. We need to strengthen education on the Marxist perspective of media to ensure that the media leadership is always firmly controlled by someone who maintains an identical ideology with the Party’s Central Committee, under General Secretary Xi Jinping’s leadership.

4. Conscientiously strengthen management of the ideological battlefield.

When facing sensitive events and complex puzzles in the ideological sphere, we should implement the principle that the people in charge assume responsibility and use territorial management.

We must reinforce our management of all types and levels of propaganda on the cultural front, perfect and carry out related administrative systems, and allow absolutely no opportunity or outlets for incorrect thinking or viewpoints to spread. Conscientiously implement the “Decision of the Standing Committee of the National People’s Congress on Strengthening Information Protection on Networks,” strengthen guidance of public opinion on the Internet, purify the environment of public opinion on the Internet. Improve and innovate our management strategies and methods to achieve our goals in a legal, scientific, and effective way.
 
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Equation

Lieutenant General
The usual bashing back starts?

China is branded and not in a positive light. That has to do with obtainable information, not just from media releases, but also from work stays in China. This last part is more important as these are valued insights by professionals into mutual perceptions. It's a running joke that your laptop will be hacked in East Asia any minute you leave it unattended.
There are food scandals in Europe, no doubt, but do they have the same degree of criminal energy and negative health effects as elsewhere?

On the positive side for China are the OECD results on the education system in Hong Kong and Shanghai. It's a long way from people being shanghaied to getting such a good education. There still remains a lack of reports on genuine inventors resulting from these school systems.


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Is this an original document? Then it highlights how the chinese gouvernment brands the Western countries and tries to brand itself in conflict with them. Not a good start for positive branding in many fields, because it undermines mutual trust:


Neither is the NSA branded in a positive light at all. Even Western allied countries and all over the world "brand itself in conflict with them". So where's the "free" media on this before Edward Snowden even became a house hold name?
 
Neither is the NSA branded in a positive light at all. Even Western allied countries and all over the world "brand itself in conflict with them". So where's the "free" media on this before Edward Snowden even became a house hold name?

Why are you dragging off-topic again? It's totally irrelevant and red herring.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I bought a LG washer/dryer set. Suppose to be a good company. The washer broke down after two years. I was able to fix it myself costing me over a hundred dollars for parts. Was it made in China or not? It's irrelevant because we're talking China brands as automatically being worse even though the non-Chinese brands make theirs in China too by the same people. So it's all prejudice. China is the second largest economy in the world without brand names. People act like brand names can be engineered to be brand names. That means someone controls what becomes a brand name. Apple is being beaten in China by a domestic smartphone company. Does that mean this company makes a better phone than Apple? Maybe someone will say that Apple is not widely distributed in China. Same can be said with Chinese smartphones or anything else that's a Chinese brand in a foreign market. Samsung smartphones are said to be better than Apple and they sell more than iPhones yet Apple gets all the kudos. Simply making a better product doesn't equate to having a better brand name. So it comes down to a lot of prejudice and the fact is a lot of foreign countries don't want China to have brand names because that means competition and less profits for themselves. The US made it illegal to sell 5-axis machine tools to China. China figured out how to make 5-axis machine tools for themselves and started exporting them. Now US foreign sales of 5-axis machine tools are near dead because they can't compete with the Chinese version. They say you get what you pay for yet people are still buying the cheap Chinese product. Maybe because per dollar basis buying the Chinese version is the better economic value. A lot of the products China exports to the world were considered luxuries only available to the 1st world developed countries. It's interesting ever since China dared to go where developed economies didn't see a profit to bother, those economies are growing like never before. How can that be if China is the one taking and not giving like it's portrayed. Because it's actually much more dynamic than that because an exchange is taking place not like it being one-sided that they make it out. Much like how can China be the number two economy and not have brand names in foreign markets?
 
I bought a LG washer/dryer set. Suppose to be a good company. The washer broke down after two years. I was able to fix it myself costing me over a hundred dollars for parts. Was it made in China or not? It's irrelevant because we're talking China brands as automatically being worse even though the non-Chinese brands make theirs in China too by the same people. So it's all prejudice. China is the second largest economy in the world without brand names. People act like brand names can be engineered to be brand names. That means someone controls what becomes a brand name. Apple is being beaten in China by a domestic smartphone company. Does that mean this company makes a better phone than Apple? Maybe someone will say that Apple is not widely distributed in China. Same can be said with Chinese smartphones or anything else that's a Chinese brand in a foreign market. Samsung smartphones are said to be better than Apple and they sell more than iPhones yet Apple gets all the kudos. Simply making a better product doesn't equate to having a better brand name. So it comes down to a lot of prejudice and the fact is a lot of foreign countries don't want China to have brand names because that means competition and less profits for themselves. The US made it illegal to sell 5-axis machine tools to China. China figured out how to make 5-axis machine tools for themselves and started exporting them. Now US foreign sales of 5-axis machine tools are near dead because they can't compete with the Chinese version. They say you get what you pay for yet people are still buying the cheap Chinese product. Maybe because per dollar basis buying the Chinese version is the better economic value. A lot of the products China exports to the world were considered luxuries only available to the 1st world developed countries. It's interesting ever since China dared to go where developed economies didn't see a profit to bother, those economies are growing like never before. How can that be if China is the one taking and not giving like it's portrayed. Because it's actually much more dynamic than that because an exchange is taking place not like it being one-sided that they make it out. Much like how can China be the number two economy and not have brand names in foreign markets?

I agree and disagree with ideas presented here. It's for certain that prejudice exists and foreign protectionism exists for all the competitive reasons. However the same time I still believe there are also the ones with ethical issues, poor quality. In that sense, I believe prejudice exists, but only go to a certain extent. The problematic practices, rules of law, governance, regulations, and corruptions certainly do affect qualities of certain products, then you have combination of factual concerns and fabricated prejudice at the same time.

Actually when I come to think of it, the most famous Chinese brand right now is Wechat.
 
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