Bhutan: Dangerous liaison

Lethe said:

Many of the sentiments expressed in this thread are exceedingly foolish and, if put into practice, would ultimately be highly damaging to China's long-term strategic interests.

To create a real containment network of China akin to that of NATO+Japan/RoK against the USSR in the Cold War would be a herculean task requiring the surmounting of various geographical, cultural-historical, economic and political challenges. Nonetheless, if the more bellicose posters here had their way, such a China-containment axis would likely be in place within a decade.

Indeed it would seem to be a universal rule that the most bellicose and aggressively nationalistic elements in any nation would lead their nations over a cliff. One can only hope that the CCP can continue to control such sentiments in China, as it has done to date, such that they remain confined to internet message boards and have no purchase in the real world.

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You are right in principle.

But there is nothing special that you need to worry. This is a forum around matters of China. Of course you should expect more of sentimental posts. The seemingly high temperature is because of the concentration of the opinions. If you put all anti-China articles from all media centers, think tanks etc. from around the world, you will see that the reality is the opposite, there are more nationalistic or even racist sentiment against China. So don't worry about the Chinese, worry about elsewhere.

Talking about specifics, the very recent posts that you referred to was caused by an article from NDTV article "xclusive: Why Indian Air Force May Best Chinese Jets In An Air Battle Over Tibet", right? Is there any advice to whoever and whichever government behind that kind of authors, journalists? Any suggestion to control the populations that are immersed in that environment? Any control to the ultra-nationalist sentiment that is being brewed by that kind of articles?

I have kept saying that the road is always two directional, and now I want to bring up another old Chinese saying "one hand can not clap to make a sound". It need two people to do good, or bad. That task is on Indian's shoulders as well.

manqiangrexue said:

The reason that we're not as aggressive in return is that India sees China as its end-all-be-all target. If India could best China, they could all die happy, because in reality, India is not qualified to even be China's opponent; it is only good enough to be the henchman of China's opponent. So for them to be considered a foe to China is their honor and they give it everything they've got. But China is not so aggressive to India because it doesn't see India as a worthy opponent and feels that if it went all in against India, it's like getting super aggressive beating up a woman. China wants to just hold her hands so she stop slapping and tell her to get her boyfriend to come fight.

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If China goes all in on India in a war there would be no more India (as in name). A majority of the land mass would become the new "East Pakistan". And India knows this price can become real as well. That's why they are so infatuated and concerned about China.

taxiya said:

You are right in principle.

But there is nothing special that you need to worry. This is a forum around matters of China. Of course you should expect more of sentimental posts. The seemingly high temperature is because of the concentration of the opinions. If you put all anti-China articles from all media centers, think tanks etc. from around the world, you will see that the reality is the opposite, there are more nationalistic or even racist sentiment against China. So don't worry about the Chinese, worry about elsewhere.

Talking about specifics, the very recent posts that you referred to was caused by an article from NDTV article "xclusive: Why Indian Air Force May Best Chinese Jets In An Air Battle Over Tibet", right? Is there any advice to whoever and whichever government behind that kind of authors, journalists? Any suggestion to control the populations that are immersed in that environment? Any control to the ultra-nationalist sentiment that is being brewed by that kind of articles?

I have kept saying that the road is always two directional, and now I want to bring up another old Chinese saying "one hand can not clap to make a sound". It need two people to do good, or bad. That task is on Indian's shoulders as well.

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Perfectly expressed. Pity it will mostly fall on deaf ears. The rest of us need to encourage each other and find greater solidarity. Employ the same vile tactics used against us. Time for China to shake off this holier than thou attitude and play the game with more Machiavellian cunning. Gotta let the bastards know when to sod off.

Equation said:

If China goes all in on India in a war there would be no more India (as in name). A majority of the land mass would become the new "East Pakistan". And India knows this price can become real as well. That's why they are so infatuated and concerned about China.

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It is a hope this will become a reality. Indian mysticism and backwards thinking is a real danger to Asia. India today is not even a shadow of their former (pre-colonialism) greatness. If one day, they can be divided into many weaker and smaller groups, that do not become breeding grounds for Islamic extremism, it would be a great source of stability for China. Both are vying for domination in Asia and so far India is WAY behind in almost every single meaningful way. They're also still suffering from massive brain drain to the west and not making the best use of their talented. China may only be mildly successful in combating this at present but they are building the correct roads to success. It is far more likely China will come out on top and so action against India may be delayed for decades, until eastern issues are resolved, if at all.

taxiya said:

If you put all anti-China articles from all media centers, think tanks etc. from around the world, you will see that the reality is the opposite, there are more nationalistic or even racist sentiment against China.

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Yes, this is undoubtedly true. It is also entirely possible that there is a greater level of bellicose nationalism in India than there is in China, and certainly in India with respect to China than in China with respect to India.

So don't worry about the Chinese, worry about elsewhere.

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I worry about a great many things. Nonetheless, the prospect of sustained enmity between China and India lies towards the top of the list. I can think of few things that would more effectively stunt the growth of both civilisations or do more to further prolong the era of western hegemony.

Talking about specifics, the very recent posts that you referred to was caused by an article from NDTV article "xclusive: Why Indian Air Force May Best Chinese Jets In An Air Battle Over Tibet", right? Is there any advice to whoever and whichever government behind that kind of authors, journalists? Any suggestion to control the populations that are immersed in that environment? Any control to the ultra-nationalist sentiment that is being brewed by that kind of articles?

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Fair point. There is no shortage of dangerous nationalist nonsense emanating from India, and not only in relation to China. I guess the difference is that one is coming from individual persons on a forum that I am also a member of, whereas bellicose articles in the Indian media are more like background noise to roll one's eyes at, but which do not compel the same personal response.

That task is on Indian's shoulders as well.

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Yes, it is. But the failure of Indian institutions, commentators, etc. to think, speak and act in a mature and responsible way does not relieve our obligation to do so. Indeed, the presence of children in the room only makes it even more important that others remember how to conduct themselves as adults.

I think we're all glad that cooler and wiser heads are analysing the situation and making decisions. This is a military forum (they're usually filled with narrow-minded chauvinism). Whenever debates heat emotions up like this one and others come in to fan the fires, we are here to respond in kind. The things we talk about here, like those discussed on other forums, hardly have an effect on real life matters because the audience is small and filled with similarly minded individuals.

ougoah said:

I think we're all glad that cooler and wiser heads are analysing the situation and making decisions. This is a military forum (they're usually filled with narrow-minded chauvinism). Whenever debates heat emotions up like this one and others come in to fan the fires, we are here to respond in kind. The things we talk about here, like those discussed on other forums, hardly have an effect on real life matters because the audience is small and filled with similarly minded individuals.

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yeah as in
#481 ougoah, Tuesday at 9:47 AM

ougoah said:

I really hope so. And resumed sooner rather than later. Loudly in front on India's face. Gotta rub it in so their trolls can shut their mouths for once.

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ougoah said:

It is a hope this will become a reality. Indian mysticism and backwards thinking is a real danger to Asia. India today is not even a shadow of their former (pre-colonialism) greatness. If one day, they can be divided into many weaker and smaller groups, that do not become breeding grounds for Islamic extremism, it would be a great source of stability for China. Both are vying for domination in Asia and so far India is WAY behind in almost every single meaningful way. They're also still suffering from massive brain drain to the west and not making the best use of their talented. China may only be mildly successful in combating this at present but they are building the correct roads to success. It is far more likely China will come out on top and so action against India may be delayed for decades, until eastern issues are resolved, if at all.

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Remember that China looks like the East Asian economic tigers in so many ways (Confucian society, government, investment, education, R&D spending, language, religion, racial harmony, long-term thinking etc). And there are certain key metrics like R&D spending where China is now performing exceptionally high for a middle-income country, and which almost certainly means China will become hi-tech and therefore wealthy.

In comparison, India looks the complete opposite in all the aspects listed above, just like Brazil. And remember that Brazil was also a Latin American economic tiger, but it has been stuck in the middle-income trap for decades. And the average Brazilian is now poorer than the average person in China for example.

However that still means India will be very influential.

Jura said:

yeah as in
#481 ougoah, Tuesday at 9:47 AM

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Yes precisely.

Wow.... My respect for the Chinese leadership has increased manifold after the Doklam crisis. I was angry at China for not pushing back hard against India, I guess someone like me would never get into a position of power to make policy in China. I'm now happy and secure that there are cool heads running the Chinese nation, not just cool heads but extremely intelligent people who have so much more foresight and clearer understanding of things in a deeper manner that most of us wouldn't even come close to grasping. No wonder, they've led the Chinese people this far, and I hope that they continue to lead China ever further and higher. One thing is given, the Chinese leadership isn't going to be prone to Knee-jerk reactions, it will be anlalytical, thoughtful, and even swallow some pride for the greater good. Pride, aahh..... the Indians would do well to suppress that false pride, bow their heads and work hard like the Chinese. China has shown it will take the path of reconciliation and diplomacy at almost any cost, even against a lesser opponent, but that China will also not compromise and is willing to fight for its core interests (as has been demonstrated by the military deployment as a show of deterrent). Let fools wallow in their false pride, while China keeps marching with its growing Economy and military. Heck, the Yuan is being made Gold- convertible for Oil trade, that is something the Indians couldn't even dream of in a Hundred years, and it is a much more significant and greater achievement than senseless showboating in the Himalayas.. Hats off to the Zhongnanghai....!