Beijing Confronts Long-Standing Weakness in ASW

Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
montyp165 said:
The PLAN at the very least has been developing the Y-8 ASW/MPA aircraft, it just needs to get them into mass production to fully cover this aspect. I'd consider mass purchases of Il-38's as a possible stopgap in the meantime if they were still in production, or modified Be-200s for that matter.
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How many of these have they actually built? Are any in service? I thought it was still in test.

Is it this aricraft:

y8specialpurposes03largii0.jpg


or this one:


y8gx6nov184.jpg


I am under the impression it is the latter.

The latter appears to be a newer airframe and a production run of these in good numbers with strong ASW capabilities and armament would be a good answer for the PLAN.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
asif iqbal said:
What is the last picture? Looks like its a modern aircraft and can carry a bomb bay easily
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Ok, the first photo is the Y-8X, a maritime/ASW patrol aircraft in service since the 1980s. I do not know how many were built, byt apparently there is consensus that the PLAN is lacking in long range ASW so their capabilities must be outdated.

This is the second aircraft:

Y-8GX6+four-engine+turboprop+anti-submarine+and+maritime+surveillance+aircraft+Chinese+P-3C+People%2527s+Liberation+Army+Navy+%2528PLA+export+pakitan+naval+mines+t+torpedoes+Active+passive+Sonob+%25283%2529.jpg


A newer Matirime/ASW patrol aircraft first seen in the last year or two. I do not know how many have been built and what stage of testing they are. I do not think any are in service yet, but do not know. I've seen it refered to as the Y-8Q GX6 and the Y-9, but again, do not know. Apparently it is thought that this will be a stronger ASW platform, that is much newer and if the PLAN builds a good number of them they will begin addressing that long range ASW need.

Notice the MAD boom on the tail, the chin mounted surface radar, and the bomb bays.
 
asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
That platform looks more similar to Y-9, but then the platform for ZDK-03 looks like Y-9


Clearly China Is addressing the ASW issue with this aircraft
 
H

hmmwv

Junior Member
It's GX6 ASW plane which is based on the Y8F600/Y9 transport plane platform, the same platform is used for all other newer specialty aircraft (AEW&C, ELINT, EW, C&C, etc). The basic Y9 transport variant has also been recently sighted. Currently there are 41+ GX series aircraft. Out of them only about half are variants of the Y8F600/Y9 platform. Initially production rate was extremely limited at 1 per month, the recent surge of numbers of GX5, 6, and Y9 suggest production rate picked up significantly, my guess would be 3-4 per month, if the Y8C line is converted to Y8F600/Y9 production I expect that number to jump to 5-6 per month. But I don't see that happening until late 2013 or early 2014 at the earliest.
 
asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Rather than getting ex-US PC-3s I think it would be good if Pakisan bought this type of aircraft from China, establishing a ASW squadron of these aircraft would be great assets for the navy and a great addition to the current 4 x ZDK-03 we already operate

If it has a bomb bay and chin mounted radar it looks like China knows exactly what kind of ASW aircraft it needs, in addition the seas and coast around Pakistan have very dramatic change in salinity and using towed arrays has been a petty difficult task as Pakistan has already tested, having one of these aircraft would address that challenge and also help development of this aircraft
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
asif iqbal said:
Rather than getting ex-US PC-3s I think it would be good if Pakisan bought this type of aircraft from China, establishing a ASW squadron of these aircraft would be great assets for the navy and a great addition to the current 4 x ZDK-03 we already operate

If it has a bomb bay and chin mounted radar it looks like China knows exactly what kind of ASW aircraft it needs, in addition the seas and coast around Pakistan have very dramatic change in salinity and using towed arrays has been a petty difficult task as Pakistan has already tested, having one of these aircraft would address that challenge and also help development of this aircraft
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Are Pakistan paying cash for their PC3s? I was under the impression that they were being provided as part of America's military assistance package to Pakistan. If that is the case, then it is easy to see why Pakistan is going for PC3s instead of trying to get airframe commonality between their AWACS and MPA fleets.

In addition, it could easily be that even if Pakistan wants this MPA, they might have to wait many years to take delivery since I would expect the PLANAF to be placing a quite substantial order once this bird becomes operational.

On top of that, this MPA is still new and untested. For the Pakistanis, given the choice between a mature, proven and very well established and respected MPA and a newly designed one still in development, one could easily see why they would go with the proven choice.

A more suspicious person might also suggest that China might have also preferred it if Pakistan went the PC3 as given the close relationship between Pakistan and China, they might be hoping that Pakistan might give them some performance benchmarks, design solutions and other useful info they might have gleamed from the PC3 design that could massively aid the development of China's own MPA. Maybe Chinese engineers might even get first hand access to PC3s.
 
R

Rauf

New Member
PN P3-Cs were acquired via $1.3+ Billion Military aid, not cash by Pak, F-16s Block 52+ and MLU is/were paid by Pak.
 
asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Rauf said:
PN P3-Cs were acquired via $1.3+ Billion Military aid, not cash by Pak, F-16s Block 52+ and MLU is/were paid by Pak.
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That is incorrect

Pakistan orders as follows

3 x P-3C Orion Update-2.5 ordered in 1988 embargod but then finally deliverd between 1996-1997 for $139 million
8 x P-3CUP Orion orderd in 2005 and delivered between 2007-2011 paid by $970 million in US aid

the 8 selected are ex-US
PCN BuNo C/n Arrival Date Previous Unit
AN2P0165 159511 5629 13-JUL-95 VP-92, NAS Brunswick, ME.
AN2P0166 159890 5641 10-AUG-95 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA.
AN2P0171 159883 5634 21-SEP-95 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA.
AN2P0174 159505 5623 30-MAY-96 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA.
AN2P0175 159510 5628 30-MAY-96 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA.
AN2P0176 159509 5627 06-AUG-96 VP-65, NAS Point Mugu, CA.
AN2P0178 159508 5626 17-SEP-96 VP-94, NAS New Orleans, LA.
AN2P0184 160289 5652 16-DEC-97 VP-30, NAS Jacksonville, FL.
 
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asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
plawolf said:
Are Pakistan paying cash for their PC3s? I was under the impression that they were being provided as part of America's military assistance package to Pakistan. If that is the case, then it is easy to see why Pakistan is going for PC3s instead of trying to get airframe commonality between their AWACS and MPA fleets.

In addition, it could easily be that even if Pakistan wants this MPA, they might have to wait many years to take delivery since I would expect the PLANAF to be placing a quite substantial order once this bird becomes operational.

On top of that, this MPA is still new and untested. For the Pakistanis, given the choice between a mature, proven and very well established and respected MPA and a newly designed one still in development, one could easily see why they would go with the proven choice.

A more suspicious person might also suggest that China might have also preferred it if Pakistan went the PC3 as given the close relationship between Pakistan and China, they might be hoping that Pakistan might give them some performance benchmarks, design solutions and other useful info they might have gleamed from the PC3 design that could massively aid the development of China's own MPA. Maybe Chinese engineers might even get first hand access to PC3s.
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well P-8 isnt going to India in a hurry, and the appearance of this type of aircraft with that MAD tail boom says alot, clearly China is looking for a serious patrol aircraft here and the fact we see bomb bays is just amazing

P-3C are good but they are getting on, plus India is buying more and more American equipment the shift to Chinese systems is a natural transition for all branches of Pakistans military, getter something that can work in wartime and prone to sanctions, P-3C are ok for peacetime and training etc but we could do with a advanced Chinese MPA

Pakistan has operated P-3Cs for over 15 years i dont think China can learn anything new from them although they are great aircraft

i just wonder how good the radar is on this aircraft and also the IR camera, P-8 can see a snorkal in the dark from miles away, but i think the systems will be advanced after seeing ZDK-03 so means its a top end aircraft
 
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