Wouldn't supplying Iran piss off the Israelis? I thought China and Israeli have good relations...
Bandar Abbas Iranian Naval Base: Does China Supply Iran?
- Thread starter mortthewiz
- Start date
speculator
New Member
- "tried to stop the sale but failed"
what? how did that happen?
when ever china tries to sell something we nearly always get stopped by the U.S!
Iran will buy from anyone they can because they are desperate and china is willing to sell because of oil. Luckily for the US, isreal, and the sunni arab nations, the weaponry that iran purchased from china and the ussr are mostly lousy and/or they have too few of the good ones.
The_Zergling
Junior Member
Really? To the extent of your knowledge, what sort of weaponry has Iran imported, and what indigenous programs are there? Unless it is common knowledge, I strongly advise you back up your statements with fact.
Chengdu J-10
Junior Member
Israel doesn't give a s#@t if its clean money or dirty money Israel will take if the price is right they think this. Well money is money after all. Cash in or listen to a country that is hundred of kilometers away from you who probably doesn't know about the deal? Money first. Hey we are humans after all, we are born greedy.
coolieno99
Junior Member
Many of Iran's key weapons are made in-house. Even its uranium ore are excavated within its borders.
Yes, so lousy are Iran's weapons that utelore, a respected member of ours, has stated how Iranian made weapons are making their way into Iraq and causing mayham and disruption to US forces. He does have inside info about the Iraq situation too.
For all those who have doubts about Iran-Chinese relations when it comes to weaponry, please take a look at this article written by Richard Fisher right after the Lebanon war of 2006:
China Sows The Whirlwind: Implications of Hezbollah’s Iranian-Chinese Weapons
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by Richard Fisher, Jr.
Published on July 26th, 2006
ARTICLES
Israel has been surprised and dismayed in the last few weeks by the unexpectedly high quality of Hezbollah munitions, most notably rockets and missiles. While some of these are indigenous, a serious search for the origin of the improvements looks to lead to China—and, to a degree still difficult to assess, to Israel itself, which has shared with China a wide range of sensitive military technologies.
Iran’s ability to produce thousands of shorter-range "Katyusha" size or slightly larger artillery-size rockets that its proxy Hezbollah has used to rain down on Israel since July 12, 2006 is largely owed to Russian and North Korean technology transfers, Chinese technologies are probably involved as well.
Without a doubt, however, the July 14 near-catastrophic attack against the modern and stealthy Israeli corvette Hanit would not have been possible without the C-802//Noor anti-ship missile, the means to produce which were sold by China to Iran in the mid-1990s. The transfer should have triggered U.S. sanctions of the PRC under the 1992 Gore-McCain Act (Iran-Iraq Arms Nonproliferation Act), but was ignored by the Clinton-Gore administration -- despite testimony from former U.S. Navy 5th Fleet commander Admiral Redd, echoed by State’s Deputy Assistant Secretary Einhorn, that the missiles presented "a 360-degree threat" to U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf, and House Resolution 105-304 (October 6, 1997) "Urging the Executive branch to take action regarding the acquisition by Iran of C-802 cruise missiles."[1]
This highly capable anti-ship missile is probably only one of many systems, the transfers of which show how Beijing has opened a genuine Pandora’s Box of proliferation possibilities in the Middle East.
Iran’s "box" of Chinese-assisted weapons now includes the Shahab series of medium range ballistic missiles, potential families of solid-fueled missiles, potential long-range land-attack cruise missiles, short-range anti-ship and man-launched anti-aircraft missiles, optically-guided missiles, deadly fast-rising naval mines and very-fast missile-armed attack ships. Furthermore, it should not be forgotten that China has aided and enabled Iran’s nuclear weapons program
Through Hezbollah, Iran has only unleashed a small taste of its Chinese-aided arsenal. But its willingness to share very sophisticated weapons like the C-802 should provide warning that Iran is capable of doing much more.
A broad pattern
China has long been associated with the nuclear and missile programs of Pakistan, Iran and North Korea, and has provided all three with conventional weapons. But Beijing is rarely held responsible when these states either threaten or actually attack their neighbors.
Quite the opposite. In Washington the conventional wisdom is that, as a responsible international stakeholder, China is doing what she can to restrain the development by these and other states of high-technology weapons and weapons of mass destruction.
Yet one can reasonably conclude that Beijing believes her security interests are enhanced by helping Pakistan tie down Chinese rival India, North Korea to threaten Chinese rival Japan and to help Iran – with whom Beijing has inked over $200 billion in energy deals in the past two years -- to challenge the ever-fragile pro-Western consensus in the Middle East. By pretending to be willing to help control these states—in return for American concessions—Beijing furthermore has acquired leverage over Washington.
Weapons partially of Chinese origin also enhance the aid both Pakistan and Iran provide to tolerated or directly sponsored terrorist and sub-state groups in order to indirectly attack adversaries with less risk of retaliation. Pakistan has done so through the A.Q. Khan network, and Iran through its direct support of Hezbollah.
Hezbollah’s current leader Hassan Nasrallah was an early graduate of Iranian training camps.[2] In the mid-1990s reports emerged of Iran’s efforts to arm Hezbollah via Syria and Turkey.[3] Since Israel’s withdrawal from Southern Lebanon in 2000, Hezbollah has armed and prepared for renewed conflict. It has constructed scores of deep underground bunkers, fortified defenses in Southern Lebanon, sent 3,000 troops to be trained in Iran, to include 50 pilots, and has armed itself with an estimated 11,500 missiles, mainly short-range "Katyusha" types from Iran.[4] While for several years there have been reports that Hezbollah had longer range Iranian artillery rockets like the 75-km range Fadjr-5 and the 160km range Zelzal, there was no warning that Iran had given Hezbollah sophisticated guided missiles like the C-802/Noor.
C-802 Surprise
On July 14 at about 8pm local time, about 16km off the coast of Lebanon, the Israeli SAAR-5 class corvette Hanit suffered considerable damage and the loss of four crew members after being attacked by what Israeli sources identified as a C-802 anti-ship cruise missile (ASM), apparently fired by Hezbollah forces. It appears that Israeli intelligence was not aware that Hezbollah had such missiles.[5] As the Hanit’s crew was not expecting such an attack, major defensive systems like its Barak-1 and Phalanx anti-missile systems were not active, and the crew reportedly only had 20 seconds warning to realize and then respond to the missile.[6] The C-802 apparently did not strike the Hanit, but exploded above it with enough force to create a hole in the stern helicopter flight deck, damaging the underlying ship control systems.[7] This would appear to confirm earlier Chinese illustrations that the 165kg warhead of this missile consists of many shaped-charges designed to project explosive energy through a greater proportion of a ship’s structure. Had the missile scored a direct hit there would have been far greater damage and loss of life on the Hanit. In addition, a second C-802 was launched but did not strike the Israeli ship, instead finding a Cambodian-registered freighter and killing 11 Egyptian crewmen.
What is not known is when and how Iran managed to convey its C-802 anti-ship missiles to Hezbollah forces. But in the mid-1990s China began enabling Iran to co-produce the 40km range C-801 rocket-propelled ASM, with one Iranian code-name Tondar, and the 120km range turbojet-propelled C-802 ASM, Iranian code-named Noor. The Noor has been displayed publicly and Iran may even have a longer 200km range version of this missile. An air-launched version of this missile is carried by Iranian Air Force Sukhoi Su-24 and McDonnell Douglas F-4 fighter bombers. Iran tested an air-launched version of the C-801 in 1997.[8] In late March 2006 during the naval exercise Holy Prophet, an Iranian forces Russian-build Mil Mi-17 helicopter launched a Noor ASM. Given Iran’s training of Hezbollah pilots, it might be expected that Iran could transfer C-802 armed helicopters to the terrorist group.
Tactical Precision Options: C-701 and TL Series
In the flurry of initial reports, especially given the relatively small amount of damage done to the Hanit, it was reasonable to conclude that Hezbollah had not fired a C-802 but perhaps the smaller and 15-20km range Chinese C-701 missile, also believed to be manufactured in Iran. During the Holy Prophet exercise Iran had publicly fired a new radar-guided version of the C-701. This missile was originally marketed with an optical seeker. In 2004 it was revealed that China’s Hongdu aircraft company and Iran had cooperated to produce two other types of short-range missiles. The JJ/TL-10A and JJ/TL-10B are respectively, TV and radar-guided versions of a 4-18km range anti-ship missile. The KJ/TL-6B is a larger 35km range radar-guided anti-ship missile.[9
Artillery Rockets With Greater Precision
On July 23 Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz said that Hezbollah has fired about 2,200 rockets into Israel.[10] Save for the two C-802 missiles fired at the Hanit, all other missiles, despite their destructive and psychological impact, are nonetheless relatively simple non-precision guided projectiles. Even the longer-range Fadjr-5 and Zelzal rockets, with their potential even to reach Tel Aviv, are non-precision missiles with destructiveness dependent upon chance. Still, anyone who thinks of the havoc wrought by the V-1s and V-2s against England sixty years ago must be concerned even by such relatively simple systems.
But what if Iran were to obtain the ability to give these missiles, or even longer-range solid-fuel missiles, the near-pinpoint precision of navigation satellite guidance? Potential Chinese-Iranian cooperation could yield missiles that would allow Hezbollah to target with precision critical Israeli military targets, and even political targets like the Knesset. According to one report in 1997 China supplied Iran with solid fuel rocket motor technology that it then applied to its 210km range Fateh/Zelzal 2 short-range ballistic missile.[11] China is currently marketing the 240km range WS-2, an artillery rocket that has been upgraded with satellite navigation guidance systems. And in 2004 China began marketing the larger 150km range B-611, a cooperative program with Turkey that may also yield a 250km range version. The B-611 uses a stealthy shape to counter missile-defenses while also utilizing navigation-satellite guidance. Instead of buying these missiles, Iran could also opt to simply purchase Chinese guidance and stealth shaping technologies to apply to its own artillery and SRBM programs.
The rest of the article is pretty long, but it is pretty interesting as to what he says.]
UFOArriving
New Member
Richard Fisher was famous at overblow the Chinese threat whenever he had a chance, that's not a very crediable source IMO.
none of the missiles China sold to Iran was against international treaty. Richard Fisher made it such a huge fuss while the only thing against the sale is an American law that has no juristication outside of its soil.
This is so typical of the "do what I say, not what I do" mentality of the Americans.
Let me get this straight - he is blaming a possible copy of a C802 missile that might have came from Iran who could have upgraded those old missiles China sold them 15 years ago - while the entire world knows that every single cluster bombs Israel used in Lebanon was Fedexed overnight from USA via England:nono:
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BLUEJACKET
Banned Idiot
Right. He and his bosses at the military-industrial complex have their own ax to grind!