(ASK) PLA body armour

Inst said:

Maintenance also costs money.

As far as those statements about 5.8mm rounds go, the 5.8mm standard round has about comparable performance to the American M61 round. It is somewhat superior at short ranges; 10mm penetration versus hardened steel compared to 7mm penetration, but tapers off against the heavier round at long distances due to lighter projectile weight resulting in increased energy loss.

Looking up NIJ Class IV, M61 is included in the NIJ Class IV category, but the newest tungsten rounds would be class V.

In this case, the GJB 4300-2002 standard is approximately equal to NIJ and GOST armor rating systems.

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The standard round for NIJ Class IV classification, I think, is the M2 AP round, which has a penetration of over 20 mm of steel at a range of 90 m.

jwangyue said:

IronsightSniper said:

On page 66 of this

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,

In the same document, if you read page 51-52 you can find the condition for care. Military training condition will be a lot more rigorous than police training. A police officer is not expect to tread through water, mud, hills, pouring rain, fighting/training in over 30 degree or below 0 etc while carrying 50-80 lbs of gear etc. All these conditions will accelerate the deterioration of body armor.

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True, but the life of that vest should still be on the order of a few years, and $580 USD for a NIJ Class IV vest for every soldier every 3 or so years isn't that much money when you put into the perspective of Military readiness.

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200 yards ~= 200 meters, .5 inches = ~12.7 mm

compare to:

The PLA claims this load will penetrate a 10mm-thick hardened-steel plate 100% of the time at 310 meters, and a 3.5mm-hardened steel plate at 700 meters.

From:



Also, interesting claim, seeing as that the 5.8 round is depending more on penetrator design rather than ballistics to penetrate armor. Where would I happen to find that PLA claim?

Funny thing is that I found that on a google search I did after I read your post >.>

I was asking for more "legitimate" sources, preferably not a forum one.

I had a copy of Timothy Yan's article once upon a time in Guns and Ammo, but I've since lost that issue. Tony Williams is rather respected for firearms as well; the key feature of the 5.8mm is that it trades off much wounding power for improved penetration against armored targets.

If someone can scan Timothy Yan's article; I'd really appreciate it.

I read that much. I do wonder however, the Ballistic qualities of the 5.8 sniper round, as to qualify for NIJ Class IV protection, the plates are usually shot at with small-caliber armor-piercing rifle rounds.

There are 2.3 million personnel, of all PLA ranks - and PAP, supportive personnel... are not included.

If only 10% of that number of soldier are the elite and are constantly under the mission ready status, or even for who-knows-what kind of black-ops - that's 230K.

230K men, more simple (eye-catching) term of "230K rifle man". Even only this elite 10% solders are issued with body armor, that's "230K not-easy-dying rifle man" - that's a number already outnumbered many other nation's regular troops(Especially rifleman, who needs bodyarmor).

So that, here I say, many of your sense of "PLA don't have enough body armor if go to war", is JUST A SENSE of yours! And considering ANYTHING that China wishes to keep un-disclossure that you can only SENSE the details - you ALWAYS sense wrong... You guys have a WRONG SENSE of this bodyarmor issue again.

And for a (not that accurate) reference, 1/3 of body armor that usa troops deplpoyed at Afgenistan uses; 1/10 of body armor that australian troops in use (and thus argued over Aust' parliment members); uncertain percentage used by british... are Chinese made, even Chinese brand - at this Chinese deemed peace-time.

GO FIGURE .

Let's see, 20 years, 2.3 million, $1000 a pop for 3 years worth of ceramic body armor: 15 billion to equip everyone with ceramic body armor for 20 years. 30 billion for 40 years.

Comparison: 4.2bn in 2010 dollars for total US F-15 fleet, 8.9 bn in 2010 dollars for total US F-15E fleet.

15 bn for the PLAAF Su-30MKK fleet, 7.1 bn for the PLAAF J-11 fleet.

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Maybe the real concern for the PLA is that body armor is easy to pawn. If you have low discipline and low morale; it's not that hard for Chinese soldiers to sell their ceramic hard plates off and replace them with hardened steel on the internet.

It's also a matter of doctrine; armor is heavy. It's not heavy to the point where you can't move in it; but armor adds weight, which reduces speed and induces fatigue.

The PLA may have an offensive doctrine focused on maneuver, and putting soldiers up in body armor slows them down. It's good if you're sitting in entrenched positions, or function as mechanized infantry, but if you're light infantry that needs to attack while making a minimum of noise and with exceptional speed, armor is detrimental.