Ask anything Thread (Air Force)

[canniBUS]

I have not seen any evidence that the J-20 does not use WP-6 engines. I have not seen evidence it carries a radar. I have not seen evidence suggesting it is not just a Mig-19 with the exterior shape adjusted.

Cost of J-20 is much lower than 40 million RMB, probably closer to 40K. Like you said most the the exterior stealth shaping of the aircraft is based on espionage gathered on F35 program. The internals of the J-20 are similar level to that of the Mig-19. This makes the aircraft very cheap to manufacture. It also makes pilot training easy since most Chinese pilots already have experience with flying the Mig-19/J-6. At the same time the internals being based on such old designs makes the J-20 performance not quite on par with F-35 though it does have excellent stealth characteristics due to both the shaping and the materials used. PLA watchers in China generally agree that the aircraft is made from a cardboard like material which does not reflect EM waves at all so the J-20 is one of the stealthiest fighters vs. radar. Another weakness though is the old WP-6 engines which are not as fuel efficient as turbofan engines. Generally speaking about 10000 J-20s should be able to match 10 F-22s.

 

[Jura The idiot]

There are always some form of restrictions operationally even if it is inducted into service. We know that here are many with the F-35 requiring work arounds. You will need to convince me that somehow being able to launch weapons at supersonic speed is a show stopper. In the case of the F-35, It took 2 years between the initial separation test and the first recorded supersonic launch.

Yes, it was about two years between the F-22's first separation tests and its first supersonic guided missile launch as well. Both F-22 and F-35 conducted supersonic weapons tests before they entered service.

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/j-20-5th-gen-fighter-thread-vi.t8169/page-537#post-562388



As for convincing you that launching weapons at supersonic speed for fighter aircraft with A2A as a primary role being a show stopper, I think the burden of evidence should be on you to convince me that it is reasonable to assume that supersonic weapons deployment should not be considered as a capability that an aircraft should have demonstrated before entering combat service.

After all, in both the examples of F-22 and F-35 (the only other two 5th gen fighters who we have those open milestones on), they demonstrated the ability to deploy weapons at supersonic speeds before entering service as well.
Are you able to demonstrate a persistent pattern among other fighter aircraft where the ability to deploy weapons at supersonic speeds was deliberately not tested before entering service?

as they say, The Proof Of The Pudding Is In The Eating:

the Chinese don't even announce what the Pentagon calls "milestones" of a military program,

so the Chinese of course don't announce if a "milestone" was or wasn't met yet (in the Pentagon, "meeting milestones" is usually connected to some fiscal year),

and only after a (significant) delay it becomes apparent the Chinese achieved what would be a "milestone",

and then it still may not be apparent if that "milestone" was met recently or several years ago,

so I think the current discussion (Brumby x Bltizo) is vague

 

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For example, I did combed through my archive and did not find any reference to the F-35 testing weapons separation at supersonic speed (until you provided). I have seen simulation data of weapons separation at varying speed (including at supersonic). If the same question was asked of me regarding the F-35 I would simply say I don't know if I have not seen any evidence. I would not make assumptions but that is just me.

From post #5287 (https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/j-20-5th-gen-fighter-thread-vi.t8169/page-529#post-562020):

"AFAIK, the F-35 can launch weapons from its internal bays even when flying at supersonic speed. Does the J-20 have similar capability?"

Honesty FAIL

 

[antiterror13]

From post #5287 (https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/j-20-5th-gen-fighter-thread-vi.t8169/page-529#post-562020):

"AFAIK, the F-35 can launch weapons from its internal bays even when flying at supersonic speed. Does the J-20 have similar capability?"

Honesty FAIL

@Brumby

Probably J-20 couldn't do that .. I haven't seen any proof that J-20 flying at supersonic .. let alone launch a missile at that speed .. I even haven't seen any proof that J-20 is a stealth aircraft ... and i haven't seen any proof that the radar on J-20 is not a dummy one

So probably J-20 is just a hoax .. so, you don't need to worry about it

 

[getready]

I'm having deja vu from back when it was argued when the J-20 first showed up that the landing gear couldn't retract because no pictures showed it could.

I agree. Waste of time to engage trolls. As I said before. If we ignore him and move on, it will be the best. the thread will be less cluttered and everyone will be happy.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Some people don't grasp logic, perhaps it's better to just avoid a logical debate with such people? I think everyone else is already in agreement that a supersonic fighter designed for supersonic combat that has been in operation for two years already is most likely (not of course, not 100% certain, but a statistical CI in this case is certainly greater than 96%) able to launch weapons at supersonic speeds. Each time I see a new post in this thread and I eagerly check for any real news and updates, it's frustrating to see the same poster arguing that the earth is at the center of the universe.

You are not going to see any real news going forward I’m afraid. This has been a clamp down on information leaks and the only thing you’ll get will be from official news channels.

 

[jobjed]

You are not going to see any real news going forward I’m afraid. This has been a clamp down on information leaks and the only thing you’ll get will be from official news channels.

What, is that supposed to justify allowing the continued flow of BS from a certain individual? Because there's a lack of credible rumours?

If there's no news, then the thread stays dormant, it's that simple.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Airframe s/n 2002 (not 2001) demonstrated the existence of trapeze hardpoints for carrying PL-15 missiles. Naturally it follows that such hardware will have been developed to be used for production aircraft as well, considering what we know about the importance of trapeze hardpoints for separation of stores from aircraft, including stealth fighters. The pictures of s/n 2002's weapons bay is hard proof of equipment that is visually consistent with what we would expect such trapeze hardpoints to appear like.
I think I am more confused as to why you think it is unimportant -- in fact I am confused as to how you can even make your argument considering such a picture exists.


As for space efficiency -- unless J-20 has some strange mechanism whereby it is able to equally reliably allow separation of its payload from its weapons bay in a way that is not inferior to trapeze hardpoints, then I expect it to be using the trapeze hardpoints we saw on s/n 2002 or an evolution of it.

Considering the likes of F-22 and F-35 continue to use trapeze hardpoints and with no plans of replacing them with different hardware, there is no reason to assume J-20 has somehow made a breakthrough in that regard.



Taking this post together with my prior replies, what it means is that we have overwhelming indications and logic to argue that J-20 almost certainly has trapeze hardpoints to deploy weapons from its internal weapons bay.


(As for SDBs -- it has a different hardpoint arrangement that takes the place of two AMRAAMs and their associated trapeze hardpoints. 4 SDBs+1 single unified SDB hardpoint replaces 2 AMRAAMs+2 AMRAAM trapeze hardpoints. I'm not sure what your point is here. We know that SDBs rely on ejection as well for separation as well on other aircraft, so we have no reason to expect the F-22's SDB hardpoint would not also have that function

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Exactly, we do indeed have some concrete information on J-20 weapon's carriage, much of what we suspected confirmed at Zhuhai 2018. Blitzo could you? Dieno or Siege possibly "sticky" one or two of the better Zhuhai video's? I think it would be helpful to have these outstanding video's at our fingertips, I've enjoyed going back and reviewing what are the most compelling evidence of the J-20's outstanding maneuverability and general competence overall?