Artificial Intelligence thread

tamsen_ikard

Captain
Registered Member
I’m not sure that’s something that’s a good image for China . lol. The way you phrase sounds like China is underpaying her brightest engineers lol
Its obvious that they are underpaying. That's why China doesn't have any kind of consumer confidence. They are going through deflation for several years now. Animal spirts and indulgance is not the mood in China now.

Another factor is that China does not treat software tech like AI to be game changer and strategic. The ones that are getting overpaid in China are chip engineers.

Oh wow…. I was aware that the governments crackdown on tech companies during corona had bad effects on the company’s tech sector and valuations (reason the government had to stop and backpedal after a few years) but I didnt think it got that bad. Hmmm…..if that’s true then hopefully the damage is getting fixed and AI boom could also help accelerate that I guess

1784421991088.png

This is what Software tech depression looks like, China's big tech are now cheaper than India's.
 

Moonscape

Junior Member
Registered Member
Chinese are not getting million dollar salaries, let alone billion dollars. Electritians in US data centers are making 250k. Its an enormous waste of money by the US. Its not even close.

In fact, ever since 2021 tech crackdown and subsequent crash in tech stocks, Chinese software tech companies are going through a deep recession. They have laid off many people and salaries were cut for most. Chinese tech sectors is going through a tough time in terms of compensation and job security.
This concern trolling is idiotic

You need to compare apples to apples. You can't compare US AI technical staff with Chinese regular software engineers

Regular software engineers in the US are also having a very very difficult time, down leveling, mass layoff, etc.

Chinese AI technical staff comp is absolutely on the same order of magnitude (so multiple millions of CNY/year) as US AI technical staff comp. People share rough numbers on 1point3acres.
 

tphuang

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
This is how you lose the AI war, US is paying multi-million to billion dollar salaries to its engineers, while China pays 30-40k and works them harder. China will win on cost and advancement due to much higher efficiency
who told you the AI engineers are only getting paid 30 to 40k? all evidence point to the contrary.
Chinese are not getting million dollar salaries, let alone billion dollars. Electritians in US data centers are making 250k. Its an enormous waste of money by the US. Its not even close.

In fact, ever since 2021 tech crackdown and subsequent crash in tech stocks, Chinese software tech companies are going through a deep recession. They have laid off many people and salaries were cut for most. Chinese tech sectors is going through a tough time in terms of compensation and job security.
actually, with software engineering what it is. Every country is laying off software engineers. In fact, SWEs are just not needed anymore. Time for them to find new jobs flipping burgers.

Oh wow…. I was aware that the governments crackdown on tech companies during corona had bad effects on the company’s tech sector and valuations (reason the government had to stop and backpedal after a few years) but I didnt think it got that bad. Hmmm…..if that’s true then hopefully the damage is getting fixed and AI boom could also help accelerate that I guess
not sure how much COVID affected tech industry, but SWE everywhere are getting laid off like no tomorrow. Anyone that spends time in tech sector knows this. Why are we acting like otherwise?

If you don't know that's the case, you are probably not qualified to post on this thread.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
The mods are probably deleting posts related to AI salaries so this will be my last post on this topic.

Again, instead of random anecdotes we should look at real surveys:
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Meta paid billion dollar packages to hire top AI talent, it was all over the news last year:

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Every US big tech is paying 10+ million to 100s of millions to keep top AI engineers and scientists in their company. The extreme amount of pay US AI engineers are getting is insane and that's why people are calling it a bubble.
Just to disabuse you of your stubborn clinging to the idea that “China is still too poor” to pay its top talent, here’s a recent example. It involves a PhD student in AI who is currently finishing his doctorate at Oxford - albeit an American loving simp.

 

horse

Brigadier
Registered Member
K3 is a 2.9T parameters sparse model that cost $15 per 1M output token or far less on subscription.
Fable is a 6T parameter (or 10T depending on how you count) dense model that cost $50 per 1M output tokens and can only be accessed via API.

You have to completely ignore Anthropic being an order of magnitude behind in the singular most important metric in performance to say Kimi is 2-3 month behind. The better question is how long will it take for Anthropic to make make a Fable that's actually usable in term of cost and efficiency.

K3 basically just destroyed the last bastion of American AI where they try to charge 100x for marginal capability delta, now they have to try charge 100x for no capability delta, or for regular users, for all practical purposes, 10x for an inferior product in Opus.

To put it another way, I can right now on Kimi subscription go to down and use K3 for everything without a single thought on token usage, if you do that with Fable you'd go broke in an instant. The real metric is, between two companies both with $100 budget, how much can each build if one use Fable and one uses K3. It's not even a competition.

Yup, agree completely.

People seem to overlook a basic point, especially those in the West.

Every single LLM that is competitive was provided to the public by a for profit corporation.

Simply put, AI in the form of LLM currently, is still a business.

The other important point that people do not talk enough about, is distillation, because everyone does it.

So, what does that mean? That clearly suggests the models will converge in terms of performance, because everyone is copying everyone else, to stay ahead.

So, therefore, if the AI current LLM product is always converging in capabilities, all that matters is price. Because it is still a business.

This reminds me of that expressions from the lawyers. This is what they say.

If the law is on your side, pound the law. If the facts are on your side, pound the facts. If neither the law or the facts and on your side, then pound the table.

Those American AI people, they are starting to pound the table, when they start to suggest is Chinese AI is really Chinese Yellow Peril AI.

That is not going to work, because this LLM is still a business, and too many mainstream and famous American companies are embracing Chinese open source AI due to the cost factor.

After all, it is still a business.

That is why I think we read too much bullshit all the time in the media.

If distillation is a normal practice in the development of AI models, then what is the outcome there? Convergence!

If frontier models are defined by compute power, then what is the outcome there? Most costs! Due to brute force methods!

Can LLM brute force its way to AGI? Notice how no one really talks about AGI anymore. It was a smokescreen all along.

:D
 
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