Anti-Torpedo Weapons & countermeasure systems

thunderchief

Senior Member
But assuming they had an intial track on the wake homers (or other unguided weapons), then the firing solution against them is fairly straight forward.

They know the speed, they know the direction, and so shooting the defensive weapon along that track and knwoing closely when the thing needs to detonate becomes something a fire control computer will be able to handle.

That's why the barrage methods of the RBU-6000 type weapon remain a decent last ditch defense to this day.

Weapons like RBU-6000 are not ideal for anti-torpedo defense , because they need to achieve direct hit or very-near miss . They have relatively small warhead with shaped charge designed to penetrate submarine hull , similar to what HEAT target does to tank armor .

On the other hand , sonars have difficulty detecting targets in ships wake , because of distortions to propagation of sound trough turbulent water filled with air bubbles . Therefore , firing solution on torpedo in ships wake would not be perfect in any case .

For a straight running torpedo (coming to the side of the ship) , things may be somewhat easier , although skippers usually tend to avoid them by changing course , not by shooting at them :D
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
If I understand the principle of wake homing correctly, then it relies on an optical sensor to look straight up from the torpedo to the ocean surface to detect how much the water directly over the torpedo has been churned up. .

Not optical , it detects water turbulence . Details are classified (of course ;) ) , but it is similar to sonar , only listens to different set of frequencies . I imagine they have some pressure sensor too , for detecting pressure drop in turbulent flow .


1. The torpedo is not homing straight at the current location of the ship. Instead it is weaving from side to side in a S pattern under the wake. So it is pursuing an inefficient trajectory, and the closing speed of torpedo upon target is likely significantly less than the difference between the raw speed of the torpedo and the target, making the work and tracking the torpedo easier.

Yes , it does follow sinusoidal pattern , but the wake is not that broad :
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I already wrote why is hard to detect exact position of torpedo in ship's wake.

2. Once the wake track is acquired the torpedo possibly has only 50/50 chance of tracking the wake the right way and run towards the ship rather than away from it. If it starts tracking the wrong way, it is unclear how long it it will take, if it can, to detect the error, make up for the lost ground and regain the target.

Well , no . Torpedoes are usually fired to enter wake at acute angle . Some of them are wire-guided for mid-course corrections . Also , there are methods to determine are you heading towards or away from target (Doppler shift)


3. If the anti-torpedo system manage to explode several large charges to churn up a broad patch of sea around the ship's wake, the wake homing torpedo would likely become mighty confused when it reaches that patch.

In that case it would probably continue to run at same pattern until it moves from that patch and reacquires target .

4. If a carrier detects the incoming wake homer, presumably its escorts can start to weave across the carrier's wake to further confuse the wake homer.

Well , there was similar idea , but it wasn't very popular in frigate community ;)

5. If water is already very churned up by heavy seas, wake homing might not work.

Not really , as heavy seas do not create turbulent flow of water below surface .

6. If wake sesnor relies on light passing through churned water to detect wake, then wake homing probably doesn't work very well at night, when there might be relatively little ambient light passing down through the churned water to allow the torpedo to sense a wake.

7. During day time it might even be possible for the target to lay down a heavy smoke screen to put its wake into a shadow to reduce the detectablility of the churning water.

They do not rely on light .
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
Well , there was similar idea , but it wasn't very popular in frigate community ;)

The frigate community was too stuck up. They somehow conceived that they have reason to exist other taking hits for the carrier.

;)


I read wake homing doesn't detect turbulence per se. Rather it detects the effect upon light passing across a sea surface that has been disturbed by turbulence. A significant improvement during Soviet wake homing torpedo had been that early wake homers relied on relatively simple photo cells to detection of patterns of brightness change, recent models had a video camera looking up and image analysis software to better identify an actual wake.
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Not optical , it detects water turbulence . Details are classified (of course ) , but it is similar to sonar , only listens to different set of frequencies . I imagine they have some pressure sensor too , for detecting pressure drop in turbulent flow
Would'nt the Shockwave of a detonating torpedo killer set off those turbulence sensors and presure sensors creating a false positive?
 
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