Animals..friend or food? Perhaps both!

Watching an animal being killed even in the most "humane" manner is still ugly.

Laws against animal cruelty mean nothing because the fact is countries being touted with these laws... organizations like PETA have video that shows they're not being enforced. That's what I'm talking about. Stomping on kittens is horrible. But is that any different from video footage of chickens being stomped on or playing baseball with live healthy turkeys. Are we to be naive that it only happens on "lesser" not important animals or if doesn't get recorded, it means it doesn't happen? Or even being hidden or not brought up for political purposes like it would be harder getting public support because people generally don't like being villified. China doesn't get that benefit of the doubt. Why? Bias and prejudice. The West still pollutes more combined and per capita than China yet China gets the negative attention. Why? Because they need a villain that people can be afraid of in gaining public support for whatever cause and/or divert attention away from their own hypocrisy and crimes. It's called a scapegoat.

Let's make some simple conclusions like they make of China. Animals rights activists like to say that cruelty to animals means you're likely to be a serial killer because supposedly all serial killers have a history of cruelty to animals first. Well the US alone has been said to have more serial killers than the rest of the world combined. Let's do the simple math like it's done to China. Let the world hammer the US alone based on that. Now you know how China feels.

So the only reason people think there's a difference is because of their own personal and not universal beliefs. If you think one is worse than the other, then you're biased by prejudice. Who gets to decide what animals are greater or lesser or deserves more protection and attention than others? The prejudice of other cultures?

Frustrated on why China apparently doesn't do anything because you're complaining about it? Well you just have to look at yourselves and ask why you haven't done anything in your own backyard or that of someone elses that happens to be in your favor. If the welfare of animals comes naturally to you, then it should be easy to stamp out the cruelty to animals in your own backyard. But you don't or you can't. Whatever excuses you can think for youself for not doing what universal morality demands of you, China can use them too.

I know some of you are Chinese that are criticzing Chinese practices. Let's try an experiment. Criticize a Western country for their recorded cruelty to animals and make the same conclusions that is made of China. They're just as guilty. Watch the resistance and the outrage at your hypocrisy criticizing them for what your people and others countries do and they'll tell you to clean up your own backyard first. The same reaction when you single-out China. China ignores the critcs on human rights abuses and you think they'll so easliy yield to this? So what's the end game? It has nothing to do with China. If you're an animals rights activist, they're trying to get their own people on board by vilifying another for the crime hoping that will turn their own in fear of being like those that do. It's the "don't be like evil" tactic. They know they have wage a war of attrition to get people on board with their agenda. For those that eat meat and criticize, they do it out of personal prejudice whether intentional or not for whatever reason and not because of concern for animal welfare. Because again if you actually cared and it comes naturally easy for your culture, then you would clean up your own backyard first.

no_name said:

What about mistreatment of animals not for food but just for cruelty itself? Wanton harming of animals through violence? There was a girl in China who filmed herself stepping on kittens and crushing them with high heels. Surely these kind of people should be held responsible?

What if the girl claimed that it is just her way of killing the kittens and that she eats them afterwards? Does that counts as slaughtering for food? Where do we draw the line between killing animals for food vs torturing them? Is abusing animals acceptable if we eat them afterwards?

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Good question, but that has to do with customs and norms, like picking one's nose in public. Yes if that girl feels like that's her way of slaughtering for food, then so be it. I can tell you dozens of stories about how people here in Texas hunts for wild hogs using hunting dogs that ravages the poor animal, but then again it's not against the law. I can let the person knows that he/she should use better methods to hunt, but I wouldn't take away their privileges by banning hunting of game animals. If there is a law against crushing animals, then who gets to pick and choose which animals one cannot get crushed? Is a bugs life more important than a rabbit or a puppy?

Equation said:

Uh that' a negative. Who gets to decide what law is "relevant" and what is not? Ultra liberals using animal rights as an excuse to enforce their views upon others just because they couldn't handle the realities of life. They would degrade the culture and thinking of others like some barbaric idiots that needed correction from the better humans. You can't protect EVERY SINGLE LIVING CREATURES (yes that includes the roaches) on earth, BUT you can protect every living HUMAN BEINGS as best you can. Having no animal rights laws doesn't make one backwards or not up to date.

Apparently you've never been told or make fun of because of your culture. Last week my friend's step daughter (Asian) were told by her dentist (he's white) that she shouldn't eat shark fin soup, because it's bad for the shark population. She is only 12 years old. Who the F*@! does this fool think he is? That's why I'm very careful about watch dogs and rights groups media. The problem about it, is they don't like it when somebody else is watching them making sure they're not being corrupt in anyway. Western media and bias making a big deal out of this group of Chinese somehow has "mordernised" by rescuing those dogs. Uhh, there are far bigger news about China's miracle, than one thinks. Such as the rebuilding of the earthquake disaster in Sichuan in 2008 that took only THREE YEARS to complete (name one single modern day democratic country that could do that?). Where were all western media regarding that miracle?

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Now if I were you, I would be careful about how you conduct yourself in regards to respecting others people's practice and norms. If you don't like it, then leave it. On another note doesn't the west has other more important things take care of first? You know, like the economy and unemployment and so forth. People need to survive just like animals do, but WHO needs it first? You decide.

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"Who gets to decide what law is "relevant" and what is not?" ?
How is this different from any other law making processes ? Same process of debates and evaluating the pros and cons.

"You can't protect EVERY SINGLE LIVING CREATURES (yes that includes the roaches) on earth, BUT you can protect every living HUMAN BEINGS as best you can."

Again, just because you can't protect every living creatures,animals or human, is hardly a reason not to protect any of them at all.

Let's do this one more time, the dogs rescue was carried out by Chinese reported by China Daily.
We also see celebrities like Yao Ming speaking out against shark fin soup and poaching of elephants for their tusks.
Chinese government is even letting foreign activists to work in China to end bear bile farming
So they don't respect Chinese 'culture' like you do ? Or maybe they're just more confident about Chinese culture than you do not to see every issues as an 'attack' on their culture ? Or more likely they don't see poor treatments of animals as having anything to do with Chinese culture ?

"People need to survive just like animals do, but WHO needs it first? You decide."

Protecting animals means not letting people to 'survive' ?
So do you mean setting up of nature reserves to protect plants and animals and laws against killing of protected species in China and other places are instances of not letting people to survive ?

Equation said:

Good question, but that has to do with customs and norms, like picking one's nose in public. Yes if that girl feels like that's her way of slaughtering for food, then so be it. I can tell you dozens of stories about how people here in Texas hunts for wild hogs using hunting dogs that ravages the poor animal, but then again it's not against the law. I can let the person knows that he/she should use better methods to hunt, but I wouldn't take away their privileges by banning hunting of game animals. If there is a law against crushing animals, then who gets to pick and choose which animals one cannot get crushed? Is a bugs life more important than a rabbit or a puppy?

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Hog hunting is encouraged in Texas because feral hogs are an invasive species and could cause ecological damages. Same with carp fishing. If you catch one you can't release it. You have to kill it.

Schumacher said:

"Who gets to decide what law is "relevant" and what is not?" ?
How is this different from any other law making processes ? Same process of debates and evaluating the pros and cons.

"You can't protect EVERY SINGLE LIVING CREATURES (yes that includes the roaches) on earth, BUT you can protect every living HUMAN BEINGS as best you can."

Again, just because you can't protect every living creatures,animals or human, is hardly a reason not to protect any of them at all.

Let's do this one more time, the dogs rescue was carried out by Chinese reported by China Daily.
We also see celebrities like Yao Ming speaking out against shark fin soup and poaching of elephants for their tusks.
Chinese government is even letting foreign activists to work in China to end bear bile farming
So they don't respect Chinese 'culture' like you do ? Or maybe they're just more confident about Chinese culture than you do not to see every issues as an 'attack' on their culture ? Or more likely they don't see poor treatments of animals as having anything to do with Chinese culture?

"People need to survive just like animals do, but WHO needs it first? You decide."

Protecting animals means not letting people to 'survive' ?
So do you mean setting up of nature reserves to protect plants and animals and laws against killing of protected species in China and other places are instances of not letting people to survive ?

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Again with the trivial propaganda using Chinese examples as a perfect indication that a one value systems fits all, culture and history be damned.


"So they don't respect Chinese 'culture' like you do ? Or maybe they're just more confident about Chinese culture than you do not to see every issues as an 'attack' on their culture ? Or more likely they don't see poor treatments of animals as having anything to do with Chinese culture?"

No they sure do act and pretend to be more white, therefore looked upon as better, just because it's a hip thing to do. Look Chinese people been doing things their way for over thousands of years (yes even saving animals) without needing any outsiders to tell them what to do.

"Again, just because you can't protect every living creatures,animals or human, is hardly a reason not to protect any of them at all."

More misinterpretation of my views again. Look I'm not going to allowed some lame ultra liberal nut case dictating everyone how to lived their lives and how they should approach to treating animals. It's all up to them, NOT a feeble law.

---------- Post added at 04:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------

siegecrossbow said:

Hog hunting is encouraged in Texas because feral hogs are an invasive species and could cause ecological damages. Same with carp fishing. If you catch one you can't release it. You have to kill it.

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True, but the law didn't described specifically how to kill it. It lets the hunters be responsible for it, instead of needing some park ranger to looking over your shoulder at all times to make sure what killing method is or against the law.

Equation said:

...............
No they sure do act and pretend to be more white, therefore looked upon as better, just because it's a hip thing to do. Look Chinese people been doing things their way for over thousands of years (yes even saving animals) without needing any outsiders to tell them what to do.
....................

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Great, so the reason is Yao Ming, the Chinese dogs rescuers, China Daily and the authorities are trying to be 'more white' by what they did on the animals issues.
It's good that although we can't agree but thru debate we at least can see where our lines of thinking are coming from.

Schumacher said:

Great, so the reason is Yao Ming, the Chinese dogs rescuers, China Daily and the authorities are trying to be 'more white' by what they did on the animals issues.
It's good that although we can't agree but thru debate we at least can see where our lines of thinking are coming from.

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Animal rights issue is a tool for Western media "soft power" trying to dominate the other culture through shame and blame tactics. Why should Yao Ming and other Chinese dog rescuers need publicity to send an example? Why not just do it and move on to bigger and more important things in life? Apparently they caught the social media bug and wants to stay "informed of today's issues", hopefully they realize it's a fruitless cause. Mankind and animals had been co-existing for millennial on their own without judicial laws, so why start one?

Did you know that cats are an invasive species to North America? They kill 200 million native birds every year in North America alone. Is it all right to kill them? It's not like they're rare or endangered. But people choose not to because of personal prejudice. In my neighborhood I can count a least a dozen feral cats running around.

Back a couple decades ago in the San Francisco Bay, invasive species from Asia were showing up taking over the ecology. You know who they blamed at first? The Chinese. The animal conservation groups came up with the conclusion that Chinese people were smuggling in their favorite foods from the home country and throwing them into the bay hoping they would breed in abundance and could be fished in the future so they can enjoy foods from the old country. What a bunch of bull they made up. It turns out that cargo ships travelling to and from Asia were blowing out their ballast tanks which was the cause for the introduction of invasive aquatic species into the bay. How did they come up with that far-fetched story. Prejudice. And some don't understand why there's resistance?

If this was about stopping cruelty, then those that point the finger would clean up their backyard first. This is not about being a bitch, but giving you the path of least resistance. If you don't clean up youselves or ignore other's cruelty, then your motivation has nothing to do with your concern for animal welfare. No one in their right mind will listen to or obey a hypocrite. If you're ignoring this basic fact, then you have another agenda and it has nothing to do with animals or stopping cruelty. Like I've been saying, if it comes so culturally natural for you to be concern with animal welfare, then it should be easy to clean up you own backyard. The only reason why you won't is because you're afraid if you fail, then you have no grounds to go around expecting others to do it.

If Yao Ming has taken up animal welfare, then there should be no more criticism of China. Why? Because that's about as much of what the countries of the critics have shown for there concern for animal welfare to make them think they can order others to do what they want and ignore the abuse of the rest.

Equation said:

Animal rights issue is a tool for Western media "soft power" trying to dominate the other culture through shame and blame tactics. Why should Yao Ming and other Chinese dog rescuers need publicity to send an example? Why not just do it and move on to bigger and more important things in life? Apparently they caught the social media bug and wants to stay "informed of today's issues", hopefully they realize it's a fruitless cause. Mankind and animals had been co-existing for millennial on their own without judicial laws, so why start one?

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I doubt the dogs rescuers will see it as a fruitless cause. Far from arresting or warning them, the authorities are letting them continue and publicizing their cause. Maybe the Chinese authorities are now manned by 'white wannabes' according to some.
Until that changes, I expect more of these stories to emerge.

---------- Post added at 08:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 AM ----------

Thailand arresting dogs smugglers. Maybe Thailand has also been overtaken by 'western forces', according to some.



"..............................."One pickup truck stopped in September had 130 dogs in sacks piled in the back," says Dalley. "More than 30 of the dogs were already dead from suffocation."

The trade is illegal in Thailand and while authorities have made a number of raids involving thousands of dogs, the Thai Veterinary Medical Association estimates as many 500,000 dogs are sold across the Mekong every year.

This month, a Thai navy patrol rescued 800 dogs packed into 40 wire cages on a six-wheeled truck on the banks of the Mekong River in Nakhon Phanom province. Police said they made one arrest but the other smugglers disappeared into the night.

Mekong patrol unit leader Captain Thirakiart Thongaram told Thai media that more than 100 empty cages were found at the scene of the raid indicating that at least 2,000 dogs had already been shipped to Vietnam.

Once the dogs arrive in Vietnam -- if they haven't died of trauma, suffocation or starvation en route -- a painful death awaits them. Dog meat aficionados claim that stress hormones tenderize the strong-tasting meat, and killing methods range from beatings to being skinned alive............................................................"

Schumacher said:

Once the dogs arrive in Vietnam -- if they haven't died of trauma, suffocation or starvation en route -- a painful death awaits them. Dog meat aficionados claim that stress hormones tenderize the strong-tasting meat, and killing methods range from beatings to being skinned alive............................................................"

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Animals killed under severe stress have higher toxicity in their blood and meat.