Ancient aliens and UFO's

vesicles said:

The possibilities I've given are simply meant to be alternatives to the ancient alien hypothesis. I am not saying these are actually THE explanations. Again, you stress the fact of "no viable explanation" as a possible evidence of involvement of other intelligent beings although you didn't clearly say that. As I have painfully stated in my first post, "no viable explanation" cannot be an evidence for any theory. The process of elimination cannot work here.

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Actually, there is 1 alternative theory to explain these ancient mysteries which does not involve aliens. But, it is again a theory which conventional wisdom says is impossible.

Namely, in the 200,000 year history of homo sapiens, there once existed an advanced, ancient civilisation that built all these wonders. Unfortunately, this ancient civilisation has since vanished. This civilisation is often called Atlantis, and the reason for their disappearance is believed to the flood that marked the end of the last ice age. Incidentally, a cataclysmic flood is also mentioned in numerous civilisation's myths/history throughout the world, such as the Bible, the Chinese myth of a rain that caused the Great Wall to topple, etc.

As you can see, this Atlantis theory is quite contrary to current established view of the evolution of homo sapiens and their associated civilisations. Which is why it is also not taken seriously. Otherwise, it would require an entire reworking of the understanding of human history.

Back to your point about the lack of evidence for alien visitation. If you consider Egyptian hieroglyphics to be reliable evidence, than it is clearly stated therein that there were flying machines and "gods" who use them. Similar hieroglyphics are found in ruins in Latin America. Certainly these can be interpreted as myths (possibly the local fairy tales, rather than fact). Or they can be taken as evidence (depending on a person's point of view). Either way, there are serious implications, because if the writings of ancient civilisations are taken as myths, than there is little scientific value in studying them at all.

Anyway, I'm not a believer of the Ancient Alien theory, although I do find the theory interesting.

What interests me about this at the moment is whether this Ancient Alien theory will go the path of Darwin's Theory of Evolution, or the path of theories that have been debunked (such as the White Hole, the cosmic opposite of the Black Hole).

vesicles said:

If it can't be explained NOW, it could be explained tomorrow. If not, what about other possibilities, like some help from God?? Can you prove God does not exist?? If not, why can't God help the Egyptians build momuments? or what about ghosts and spirits? they got supernatural power that would allow them to move heavy things around. Can you prove these spirits don't exist? probably not. If not, it is also possible ghosts and spirist did it. you can see why "no viable explanation" cannot be used as evidence...

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The funny thing about the supernatural is that current scientific theory is practically useless in explaining it. This is despite the fact that there is no known human civilisation on earth without some sort of belief in the supernatural. While it is certainly true that some belief in the supernatural is due to lack of understanding of the natural world, others remain to be explained.

And unfortunately, despite all the hype about how advanced scientifically we are, there remains fundamental issues which science cannot explain, or have explained wrongly.

Take for instance the scientific view of how an aircraft generates lift. Conventional wisdom teaches that the air flow over the wing is faster, while the air flow beneath the wing is slower. This generates an upward pressure to lift the aircraft.

The last time I was still keeping track of physics developments several years ago, there is a new, emerging view that the lift is generated by the air displaced downwards by the aircraft (not just the wing, but the entire aircraft). Thus, a heavier aircraft need to displace a larger mass of air to stay airborne. The evidence? Nice pictures of troughs in clouds under a passing aircraft. And yes, all the scientific formulas work too.

So, which is correct? The theory that was used to make aircraft for a century? Or the new, emerging theory?

Spartan95 said:

Actually, there is 1 alternative theory to explain these ancient mysteries which does not involve aliens. But, it is again a theory which conventional wisdom says is impossible.

Namely, in the 200,000 year history of homo sapiens, there once existed an advanced, ancient civilisation that built all these wonders. Unfortunately, this ancient civilisation has since vanished. This civilisation is often called Atlantis, and the reason for their disappearance is believed to the flood that marked the end of the last ice age. Incidentally, a cataclysmic flood is also mentioned in numerous civilisation's myths/history throughout the world, such as the Bible, the Chinese myth of a rain that caused the Great Wall to topple, etc.

Click to expand...

I thought Atlantis people only lived on the island of Atlantis. How could they have build things in Egypt although the mystical location of Atlantis is close to Africa (near Greece)? Another thing is that the legen says the ancient Greeks got the story the Atlantis from Egyptians. So this could be complicated...

The old theory about ancient societies is that most of these societies were mostly isolated. If they all had a similar description about an event, like the flood, it must have been a global event. However, new findings piont to the possibility that these old civilizations were communicating frequently with each other. National Geographics discussed a finding last year in West China. They found a gravesite dated back to very ancient times. I'm not sure about the exact timeline, but ceratinly to early periods of human history. In this site, they found mummy-like bodies that have been identified as mainly East Asian (namely Chinese). Note that key word here is "mainly". I think it's about 80% Chinese. They also got caucasian genes in them. Additionally, these bodies wear cloth that could only be identified as German, like the type of material as well as style and patterninig. They also wear head gear that could only be found in India. The the entire gravesite looks like a mix of East and West. According to historians, the communication between East and West did not occur until the Silk road, which was much much later than time when these people lived. This finding suggests that, at a time when we now think most ancient societies lived in isolation, ancient societies were communicating frequenctly enough to adopt many various styles of living and even inter-marriage.

If this is true, then it is possible that one society came up with a story of flood, which was then spread by word of mouth to other societies. After thousands of years, different societies took these stories and made them their own. That's why I said we should go back and modify the existing theories. Instead of insisting our ancestors lived in isolation, we should now accept the possibility that they were communicating and changing stories and legends. That's why we all have similar legend of things happening in the past.

Spartan95 said:

The funny thing about the supernatural is that current scientific theory is practically useless in explaining it. This is despite the fact that there is no known human civilisation on earth without some sort of belief in the supernatural. While it is certainly true that some belief in the supernatural is due to lack of understanding of the natural world, others remain to be explained.

And unfortunately, despite all the hype about how advanced scientifically we are, there remains fundamental issues which science cannot explain, or have explained wrongly.

Take for instance the scientific view of how an aircraft generates lift. Conventional wisdom teaches that the air flow over the wing is faster, while the air flow beneath the wing is slower. This generates an upward pressure to lift the aircraft.

The last time I was still keeping track of physics developments several years ago, there is a new, emerging view that the lift is generated by the air displaced downwards by the aircraft (not just the wing, but the entire aircraft). Thus, a heavier aircraft need to displace a larger mass of air to stay airborne. The evidence? Nice pictures of troughs in clouds under a passing aircraft. And yes, all the scientific formulas work too.

So, which is correct? The theory that was used to make aircraft for a century? Or the new, emerging theory?

Click to expand...

If this new theory can be verified, I would not hesitate to accept it. IMHO, this is how we advance as a civilization.

Spartan95 said:

The funny thing about the supernatural is that current scientific theory is practically useless in explaining it. This is despite the fact that there is no known human civilisation on earth without some sort of belief in the supernatural. While it is certainly true that some belief in the supernatural is due to lack of understanding of the natural world, others remain to be explained.

And unfortunately, despite all the hype about how advanced scientifically we are, there remains fundamental issues which science cannot explain, or have explained wrongly.

Click to expand...

I firmly believe that IF (that is a big IF) it exists, it WILL be shown scientifically. Perhaps not now, but eventually. We may not have the kind of understanding of the universe to comprehend the possibilities of multiple universes existing in various dimensions.

vesicles said:

I thought Atlantis people only lived on the island of Atlantis. How could they have build things in Egypt although the mystical location of Atlantis is close to Africa (near Greece)? Another thing is that the legen says the ancient Greeks got the story the Atlantis from Egyptians. So this could be complicated...

Click to expand...

It is complicated. Atlantis is currently believed to be somewhere in the Mediterranean. But, as the majority in the scientific commmunity believe this to be a myth, there isn't much effort to look for it.

Also, being an advanced civilisation, Atlantis should have not problem having links with near by civilisations. And their descendants may have founded Egypt, etc.

Anyway, the Atlantis theory is quite a bit more elaborate, but I haven't read all that much about it.

vesicles said:

The old theory about ancient societies is that most of these societies were mostly isolated. If they all had a similar description about an event, like the flood, it must have been a global event. However, new findings piont to the possibility that these old civilizations were communicating frequently with each other. National Geographics discussed a finding last year in West China. They found a gravesite dated back to very ancient times. I'm not sure about the exact timeline, but ceratinly to early periods of human history. In this site, they found mummy-like bodies that have been identified as mainly East Asian (namely Chinese). Note that key word here is "mainly". I think it's about 80% Chinese. They also got caucasian genes in them. Additionally, these bodies wear cloth that could only be identified as German, like the type of material as well as style and patterninig. They also wear head gear that could only be found in India. The the entire gravesite looks like a mix of East and West. According to historians, the communication between East and West did not occur until the Silk road, which was much much later than time when these people lived. This finding suggests that, at a time when we now think most ancient societies lived in isolation, ancient societies were communicating frequenctly enough to adopt many various styles of living and even inter-marriage.

If this is true, then it is possible that one society came up with a story of flood, which was then spread by word of mouth to other societies. After thousands of years, different societies took these stories and made them their own. That's why I said we should go back and modify the existing theories. Instead of insisting our ancestors lived in isolation, we should now accept the possibility that they were communicating and changing stories and legends. That's why we all have similar legend of things happening in the past.

Click to expand...

I totally agree.

Part of the issue is that "conventional wisdom" has convinced a large part of the scientific community that ancient civilisations don't have links with one another, so much so that it is taken as the "truth". And people don't want to revisit the issue. Particularly when the established authorities in this field continue to uphold this "conventional wisdom" and resist efforts at reviewing other possibilities.