An innovation idea for Army.

SteelBird said:

I have a different idea; what about a high speed kinetic-energy-kill RPG round? For example, 1500m/s? The RPG-7's projectile moves slowly and they're single shot that they're likely to miss a fast moving target. If you add speed and multiple shot (2 to 4 shots) to it, the hit probability may raise highly.

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Has a high speed kinetic energy kill round been successfully been developed and deployed already? From what I imagine, these rounds are much bigger than normal RPG rounds which came back to weigh issue. and such a round would also go back to the same cost issue.

RPG's lifespan is almost to an end. It is quite obsolete in many battle fronts and against better equipped and armored troops. The only advantage that I can see of the RPG right now is, it is cheap and easy to manufacture and could be build in great numbers quickly so as to arm militia in a large number.

The RPG are still quite useful against soft armour and infantries but these advantages are also diminishing too.

For the poorer nations, they had huge stockpile of the RPG rounds and I don't think they would want or can afford newer and more powerful rounds (like kinetic rounds or guided rounds). For country like China and other more developed country that fielded the RPG, they are slowly phasing these weapon to backline troops or militia and are adopting missiles and more powerful rockets.

For countries like US, Japan, SK and many of the EU countries, they do not even use RPG and so these innovation do not benefit them.

Actually from what I see... innovation do not have to be technologically advance and/or very complicated.

I would think that they might be able to add a high power laser dazzler which I think they have the technology to manufacture cheaply and in vast number, under their Type 95 or other handheld weapon like their submachine gun. It is useful to put down offensive individuals without the need to kill them.

rhino123 said:

What you say is true except for a small detail. How are the separaist gonna get hold of the electronic. and how are they going to be specialise enough to manufacture these 'high tech' equipment.

Most third world countries that still uses the RPG are mainly very poor and with wealth resting on very little number of people who actually do not care for anything but themselves.

Plus... one more thing, to make a round guided, it is not just the empty cone that was to be laid with electronic components and equipment. The entire round had to be involve, how else would the round be guided? So it is not a simple feat to modify and upgrades these rounds and most certainly it those poorer nation or insurgents wouldn't have the capability or knowledge to do it unless there are some form of support from a third party nation like CHina.

As for China, I think they are slowly phasing out the RPG or their equivalent in favour for better anti-tank and anti-bunker weaponries... and the on hand RPG are being flowed down to second line troops and militia. so there is no need to spent massive amount of dollars to upgrades these weaponries.

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I direct your wayward attention to my 1st post, wherein I specified that it should be NORINCO or the Russians who will build and supply this round, not the separatist groups themselves.

The separatist groups will merely use it.

Please do me the courtesy of reading my whole argument, not just portions of it.

The modifications I suggested are far from difficult, certainly not as hard (unless you have no technical training) as you may believe.

Modifying a rugged and simple piece of equipment like the RPG round is in fact routine - both Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have produced their own version of the warhead for anti-personnel use.

If fact a group of engineering students in a well-equipped lab could make such a round a class project and be able to complete a working design by the end a year or so of effort - provided they had enough support and were permitted to work with weapons and high explosives.

I myself would consider it a dream project to be involved in.

duskylim said:

I direct your wayward attention to my 1st post, wherein I specified that it should be NORINCO or the Russians who will build and supply this round, not the separatist groups themselves.

The separatist groups will merely use it.

Please do me the courtesy of reading my whole argument, not just portions of it.

The modifications I suggested are far from difficult, certainly not as hard (unless you have no technical training) as you may believe.

Modifying a rugged and simple piece of equipment like the RPG round is in fact routine - both Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have produced their own version of the warhead for anti-personnel use.

If fact a group of engineering students in a well-equipped lab could make such a round a class project and be able to complete a working design by the end a year or so of effort - provided they had enough support and were permitted to work with weapons and high explosives.

I myself would consider it a dream project to be involved in.

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I myself would also like you to read all of my arguement and not the insurgent whereby you are the one who brought it up in the first place (so do me the courtesy of understanding my post first before flaring up).

I am saying that RPG is mend to be a cheap weapon to be easily manufactured and armed in vast numbers to the people. Russia and China of course have the capability of designing and built such munition but it is too expensive and would not give the advantage to their more powerful weapons. Plus both Russia and China are slowly phasing out these weapons and the abundance of them are given to the second line or militia.

And yes, your engineering students in a well equipped lab could produce a RPG rounds. That is pure and simple RPG rounds. But could they produce one that had guidance system in them? It is not as simple as you make them sound to be.

SteelBird said:

I have a different idea; what about a high speed kinetic-energy-kill RPG round? For example, 1500m/s? The RPG-7's projectile moves slowly and they're single shot that they're likely to miss a fast moving target. If you add speed and multiple shot (2 to 4 shots) to it, the hit probability may raise highly.

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The only projectiles that travel that quickly are those fired from high-velocity tank or anti-tank guns.

Only those pieces of specialist artillery can produce the tremendous kinetic energy needed to accelerate a projectile to those velocities (about 150% that of a rifle bullet like the M-16's 5.56 mm round).

Such a weapon will be large, heavy and crew-served - like any high-velocity gun - hardly the weapon for an individual soldier who has a minimum of training and equipment and relies on mobility and stealth.

Even then to make hits at long-range tank guns need laser range-finders, ballistic computers and large servo control systems to lay the gun.

The whole point of using weapons like the RPG is that it is possible to defeat homogeneous steel armor with clever means like shaped-charges.

The development of high-precision smart weapons, and applies primarily to those weapons which themselves are expensive and are responsible for the destruction of targets.
Electronic guidance system of the road, they are certainly justified to create a high-precision bombs and missiles, especially those that are designed to deal with important goals, fortified bunkers, air defense systems and radars, warships, and the like.
But for tactical use of precision munitions guidance systems are already in question because of the price. Manual anti-aircraft or anti-tank missile is like a machine, if so will cost grenade fired any army will be destroyed. In addition, grenade launchers simply not suited for precision guidance systems, a grenade they simply have no place to place, not the scheme. In addition to disposable rocket launchers, which are bulky and there is where to put the guidance system, in principle they can be upgraded.
I think that for innovations in the field of tactical nuclear weapons to think not about how to lard products expensive electronics, but to improve them through intelligence and proceeding from a clear sense of changing conjuncture of weapons. That is foresight for what areas of a future, and which itself is already outdated, so for example, nebylo point in the modernization of bows and crossbows after the appearance of a firearm. But modern weapons are very varied, and probably because of the abundance of data analysts do not often lose sight of such factors.
In the early themes I proposed anti-tank heavy duty self-propelled cannon calculated on a special powder that produces hydrogen at a hot fire. The pH of the powder allows the projectiles reach speeds in 3 - 4 kilometers per second.
Such a gun can beat the tanks over open sights at a distance of 5 - 6 km, and with guided missiles equipped with boosters up to 10 - 13 kilometers. That is capable of replacing anti-tank missiles, portable, and even air (helicopter).
Anti-tank self-propelled gun, the technology of World War II, it is worth it relatively expensive to make the gun can be on the technological base in developing countries. However, the submunitions at a speed of 3 kilometers per second for a punchy power do not yield a cumulative projectiles caliber of 120 millimeters, and on the harmful effect is much superior to them.
But a special gun to fight with the tanks is just one of the options.
Modern technologies allow to create a portable missile at hypersonic speeds of submunitions, or some modern hand-held anti-aircraft missiles are made according to this principle, so why not broaden its scope.
Shell rockets made out of composites are much lighter metal, it can make them easy and effective missile weighing 15 - 30 kilograms can develop hypersonic speed.
Propellants can be done much cheaper and safer than ballistite or composite propellant with ammonium perchlorate. I have practical experience in this area, I did the fuel for light Nitrates are not inferior to traditional energy solid fuel. But nitrate fuel in 5 - 20 cheaper than traditional, and they can be made in makeshift conditions of the available chemicals. Wind up the shell of shells made of composites can also be manually.
Fast rockets can shoot a few miles from the acceptable accuracy of their striking power can incite any light armored vehicles and tanks at a successful hit. They are heavy compared with grenades, but unlike the grenades, this weapon is not for combat maneuvering and firing from positions. Grenades are effective for shooting at close distances from the shelters or in surprise attacks, it is their main area of application.
Opportunities grenades can be expanded using the cumulative kernel. Cumulative core is formed by blowing up a grenade in the air at the minimum distance from the shooter to continue flying at a target rate of 1 - 2 kilometers per second. Fast enough, as armor-piercing or anti-aircraft missile.
A lack of cumulative kernel include high aerodynamic resistance and poor penetrability multilayer armor. But skill is the theoretical developments on how to make a streamlined cumulative core capable of punching a multi-layer armor. I do not want to lay out technical details, but the possibility exists there.
The modified cumulative kernel allows RPG with high accuracy fire at moving targets at a distance of about one kilometer. And not only on land but also on the air. Cumulative kernel is much cheaper and easier targeting system, it is one of the areas to empower the infantry to fight high-tech enemy.
The modified cumulative kernel can be used not only for hand grenades, but also for heavy smoothbore tank cannons.
Flight speed HEAT projectile, tank gun can reach - 1000, 1500 meters per second. Explosion of a shell increases the rate of cumulative kernel yet for 1000, 2000 meters per second.
Speed striking element in the 2 - 3 kilometers per second allows for tank guns firing over open sights at a distance of several kilometers, and confidently hit a moving target at a distance of about one kilometer. And unlike the special gun on hydrogen gunpowder, a modified kernel does not require any upgrading tank gun, but will enhance its capacity to fight against mobile targets.
Shells with a modified cumulative kernel allow tanks as effectively shoot down air targets as anti-aircraft guns, but the cumulative projectiles are not managed and they are relatively cheap.
This extends the capability of the tank to combat air targets with almost no cost to upgrade.
Another possibility is the use of simplified systems management for shooting slow flying guided missiles.
Modern Electronics to create a low-cost guidance system for subsonic missiles based on optical cables and Web cameras. Such systems are very cheap in comparison with stand-alone, and all the necessary Electronics is in the open market.
Guidance systems for fiber optic cables allow you to modify missiles like disposable grenade weighing several kilograms confident of hitting targets within a radius of several kilometers. These weapons which may be comparable in efficiency with antitank missiles, but much cheaper and easier.
Besides missiles with Web cameras provide additional opportunities in terms of operational tactical intelligence, they broadcast the image to the operator, and allow direct mode to monitor the enemy at close range.
Subsonic missile with a fiber optic control systems can be equipped with pulsating air ramjet engine. At these flew more Nazi Fau - 1. This is several-fold increase their radius of action at low starting weight.
Missiles with pulsating engines can fly not only along a ballistic trajectory, but also actively to maneuver in the air. That is essentially based on them, you can create a fundamentally new type of weapon - "Portable assault drones, and they will cost very cheap compared with radio-controlled counterparts with conventional engines. The cheapness of these products fully justifies their main drawback - disposable.

How's about my robot army fights your robot army to capture each others' flags, then we shake hands afterwards, and declare the killer of civilians the forfeiter of the "war".

Sort of like a high-tech game of chess except with live ammo and machines.

Robot wars, basically.

War without casualties do not happen if countries compete with each other, they compete in the economy, science and other areas that lead to the development and benefit. No one would never spend money on military robots that will not cause significant damage to the enemy and not bring any benefits. Although the development of robots in itself leads to progress, but it is more profitable areas of activity, such as cosmos.
Robots in the military can increase its efficiency, and reduce the number of human losses, but in principle they do not change anything. The emergence of new weapons has never changed the principles of war, rather, the war in medieval Europe were similar to knight tournaments, but when there was a firearm, war again became widespread and bloody.