Americans afraid of China?

China doesnt need J-xx, SSBN, carrier, NUKES, or any stuff like that for Usa to fear her, she just needs Us$$$.

Us 7,000,000,000,000 debt is just like an economic nuclear timebomb. the reason why Us isnt afraid of it yet is cos most of its major creditor countries are like Us lackies (ie Japan the 52nd state of USA).

however, China is different, China won't bow to Us pressure to withhold spending the Us$$$. if Us really goes too far and sends troops to Taiwan, then simple, china doesnt need to respond with force, just start spending or exchanging Usd for goods, or other currencies.
what happens next will be really ugly.

other countries seeing the Usd value dropping will start dumping THEIR SHARE too, and Usd will drop to a fraction of what its original value is (1/10? 1/100??). Sure, China will suffer too, because her treasury will shrink due to the devaluation of Usd, but then anyway it is SURPLUS MONEY.

However!, Us economy will crash, then everything in america will be expensive overnight. then they will simply leave Taiwan and beg for China's ECONOMIC AID. its just so simple to deduce that Usa is INDEED afraid of China just by looking at how their "hawks" fret and toss and turn at night thinking of how to reduce the trade deficit with China.

truth is, and China knows, that the key to prevent Us irritation in Taiwan, or any other Chinese affairs, is to win the economic battle with it. and it is indeed happening at shocking pace. if u calculate China's economy with PPP factored in, they are the 2nd largest economy and not too far from Us. (simple terms - earn less buy cheaper)

tphuang said:

The issue is not whether USA can destroy China or not, but whether it will be willing to allow one of its cities destroyed (most likely LA or SF) just so that it can wipe out 1/5 of the world's population. What do you think?

China only needs one good nuke to deter an attack. As long as one of ICBM or SRBM can reach continental USA, USA will be really careful about launching pre-emptive nuclear attacks.

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You are most correct. It is good that at least someone understands the strategic significance of a Nuclear Weapon, and not just see it as a mere weapon.

Every power at the moment is afraid of a single nuclear weapon, even a small brief case nuclear weapon. The reason is simple...because it kills alot of people and leaves a big mess. In addition a well placed nuclear device can also really ruin ur whole campaign and put it to definite halt.

Example is the current North Korean situation. Historically when North Korea goes "crazy" as precieved by the west, they usually ransom for money or food. But this time it is very different... after Bush declared as a member of teh "Axis of Evil", the North Koreans became paranoid of being in the hit list of the USA. The North Koreans knows that they cannot will a conventional war against teh USA. So therefore the best option to deter the enemy is to build a Nuclear Weapon. In addition the North Koreans were not ransoming for money or food... but to get teh USA to sign a "Non-Agression Treaty".

Think carefully ladies (are there any?) and gentlemen, If Saddam truely had a nuclear weapon as claimed by the USA to justify the war, do u think the USA would fight that war.

chopsticks said:

China doesnt need J-xx, SSBN, carrier, NUKES, or any stuff like that for Usa to fear her, she just needs Us$$$.

however, China is different, China won't bow to Us pressure to withhold spending the Us$$$. if Us really goes too far and sends troops to Taiwan, then simple, china doesnt need to respond with force, just start spending or exchanging Usd for goods, or other currencies.
what happens next will be really ugly.

other countries seeing the Usd value dropping will start dumping THEIR SHARE too, and Usd will drop to a fraction of what its original value is (1/10? 1/100??). Sure, China will suffer too, because her treasury will shrink due to the devaluation of Usd, but then anyway it is SURPLUS MONEY.

However!, Us economy will crash, then everything in america will be expensive overnight. then they will simply leave Taiwan and beg for China's ECONOMIC AID. its just so simple to deduce that Usa is INDEED afraid of China just by looking at how their "hawks" fret and toss and turn at night thinking of how to reduce the trade deficit with China.

truth is, and China knows, that the key to prevent Us irritation in Taiwan, or any other Chinese affairs, is to win the economic battle with it. and it is indeed happening at shocking pace. if u calculate China's economy with PPP factored in, they are the 2nd largest economy and not too far from Us. (simple terms - earn less buy cheaper)

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Excellent.... another person who can see the battlefields before the battlefield where blood is shed. Indeed... and trust me the USA has no money. In addition Kissenger once said "it would be foolish to think that the USA destroy a civilisation with 5000 yrs of undisturbed history with 17 dynasties, 15 of which are longer than the entire history of the USA". I did not understand the reason of his statement, but now i do.

EternalVigil said:

The US won ever major battle in vietnam but lost the war due to lack of political support back home and the south vietnamese lack of battle skills without US over sight. Thats another story for a differant day. We wont be in a land war in asia. The US wouldnt try to deploy troops in China if thats what you mean. Japan, Gaum, Hawaii, the Marshall Islands,South Korea, and Alaska is where US forces forward deploy to.

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This is an example of a PLA General's advise to Mao during the planning of the Korean War. He said "The USA are poor strategist but are excellent tacticians".
And dear Airforce friend.... u must remember China is not Iraq or Kosovo, that place is huge. Mere planes and missiles will not defeat them. Infantry will be the only and final effective tool. And trust me.... (no offense) USA infantry is not very good.

I disagree the US infantry is great, but we can debate this endlessly. Also the US deficit is at a lower yearly percentage of gdp than in the 70's or the 80's, and we have a lower unemployment rate and lower inflation, with only 3.3 trillion owed to foreign reserves and the rest being owed to ourselves like pension funds and healthcare etc. The US is far from out of money I know the gloom and doomsayers predicting the demise of the US wants you to believe this but it isnt true. Last year the US had a total gdp of almost 12 trillion USD China only had 1.65 trillion. This year the US is forcasted to have 13 trillion total gdp and china will be just under 2 trillion. These are figures from the world bank.
The US economy wont fail its just more wishful thinking on people that want it to so they can take the global place of the US.



(AP) - The world's 20 wealthiest countries, based on World Bank Gross Domestic Product figures from 2004, the most recent available for all nations.

1. United States, $11.67 trillion

2. Japan, $4.6 trillion

3. Germany, $2.7 trillion

4. Britain, $2.1 trillion

5. France, $2.0 trillion

6. Italy, $1.67 trillion

7. China, $1.65 trillion

8. Spain, $991.44 billion

9. Canada, $979.76 billion

10. India, $691.88 billion

11. South Korea, $679.67 billion

12. Mexico, $676.5 billion

13. Australia, $631.26 billion

14. Brazil, $604.86 billion

15. Russia, $582.4 billion

16. Netherlands, $577.26 billion

17. Switzerland, $359.47 billion

18. Belgium, $349.83 billion

19. Sweden, $346.4 billion

20. Turkey, $301.95 billion

It also depends on how much u spend. But then as u said we can just go on debating this endlessly and get nowhere. And i am not here to convince anyone. But one thing i am sure, the USA is afraid of China in a table tennis game.

PS i don't wish and don't think....

Well I have to agree on the table tennis thing. I was up late a few weeks ago and watched some of the chinese matches on one of the ESPN channels. I swear some of those guys must have 6 arms they were doing inhuman things with ping pong.

EternalVigil said:

I disagree the US infantry is great, but we can debate this endlessly. Also the US deficit is at a lower yearly percentage of gdp than in the 70's or the 80's, and we have a lower unemployment rate and lower inflation, with only 3.3 trillion owed to foreign reserves and the rest being owed to ourselves like pension funds and healthcare etc. The US is far from out of money I know the gloom and doomsayers predicting the demise of the US wants you to believe this but it isnt true. Last year the US had a total gdp of almost 12 trillion USD China only had 1.65 trillion. This year the US is forcasted to have 13 trillion total gdp and china will be just under 2 trillion. These are figures from the world bank.
The US economy wont fail its just more wishful thinking on people that want it to so they can take the global place of the US.



(AP) - The world's 20 wealthiest countries, based on World Bank Gross Domestic Product figures from 2004, the most recent available for all nations.

1. United States, $11.67 trillion

2. Japan, $4.6 trillion

3. Germany, $2.7 trillion

4. Britain, $2.1 trillion

5. France, $2.0 trillion

6. Italy, $1.67 trillion

7. China, $1.65 trillion

8. Spain, $991.44 billion

9. Canada, $979.76 billion

10. India, $691.88 billion

11. South Korea, $679.67 billion

12. Mexico, $676.5 billion

13. Australia, $631.26 billion

14. Brazil, $604.86 billion

15. Russia, $582.4 billion

16. Netherlands, $577.26 billion

17. Switzerland, $359.47 billion

18. Belgium, $349.83 billion

19. Sweden, $346.4 billion

20. Turkey, $301.95 billion

Click to expand...

Actually, China's true economy should be measured in PPP, not in real dollars.

China's economy measured in PPP would place it 2nd at 7 trillion dollars.

If an item costs 7 tiimes less in China than in the USA, then China's relative economy is 7 timies higher than in real terms.

hmmmm not too sure abt that Skyhawk because the average Chinese is also poorer than the average American in terms of dollars in their pockets.

But then again from another perspective, the USA became the most powerful nation based signficantly on it's industrial strength. No other country in the past 50yrs can come close to the level of industrial strength possesed by the USA until now. Chinese industrial strenght is also very powerful and is comparable to the USA, and the important thing is that the transition of the Chinese economy is not yet complete which means that their industrial strength will only increase in the future and possibily surpass the USA. This is evident because Admiral Yamamoto warned against attacking Pearl Harbour because the USA industrial strength will quickly replace their fleet with newer and better ships and the ratio of workers in war factories at that time (correct me if i am wrong) was abt 5 (american) : 1 (Japanese). Same scenerio can be applied to the current situation between the Chinese and USA. Inaddition China had the world's largest economy for more than 1000yrs until recent history simply because they had always had the largest population and things were normal. So as long as China re-organises their economy without any problems it will also be inevitable that history may repeat itself. And usually the more money u have got the easier it is to do things.

skyhawk2005 said:

Actually, China's true economy should be measured in PPP, not in real dollars.

China's economy measured in PPP would place it 2nd at 7 trillion dollars.

If an item costs 7 tiimes less in China than in the USA, then China's relative economy is 7 timies higher than in real terms.

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IF we are comparing the MACRO fundamentals of a country, measuring an economy in absolute terms is much accurate. If we are comparing how an individual is doing, PPP is much better.

Mr_C said:

hmmmm not too sure abt that Skyhawk because the average Chinese is also poorer than the average American in terms of dollars in their pockets.

But then again from another perspective, the USA became the most powerful nation based signficantly on it's industrial strength. No other country in the past 50yrs can come close to the level of industrial strength possesed by the USA until now. Chinese industrial strenght is also very powerful and is comparable to the USA, and the important thing is that the transition of the Chinese economy is not yet complete which means that their industrial strength will only increase in the future and possibily surpass the USA. This is evident because Admiral Yamamoto warned against attacking Pearl Harbour because the USA industrial strength will quickly replace their fleet with newer and better ships and the ratio of workers in war factories at that time (correct me if i am wrong) was abt 5 (american) : 1 (Japanese). Same scenerio can be applied to the current situation between the Chinese and USA. Inaddition China had the world's largest economy for more than 1000yrs until recent history simply because they had always had the largest population and things were normal. So as long as China re-organises their economy without any problems it will also be inevitable that history may repeat itself. And usually the more money u have got the easier it is to do things.

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Uh i never said Chinese have as much as Americans. I am saying that a Income per capita of $1000 does not accurately reflect how much the avearge citizen in China makes. It is more likely, around $7,000 in PPP terms.

Chinese are still poor of course, but not much as the real income figures.

EternalVigil said:

I disagree the US infantry is great, but we can debate this endlessly. Also the US deficit is at a lower yearly percentage of gdp than in the 70's or the 80's, and we have a lower unemployment rate and lower inflation, with only 3.3 trillion owed to foreign reserves and the rest being owed to ourselves like pension funds and healthcare etc. The US is far from out of money I know the gloom and doomsayers predicting the demise of the US wants you to believe this but it isnt true. Last year the US had a total gdp of almost 12 trillion USD China only had 1.65 trillion. This year the US is forcasted to have 13 trillion total gdp and china will be just under 2 trillion. These are figures from the world bank.
The US economy wont fail its just more wishful thinking on people that want it to so they can take the global place of the US.



(AP) - The world's 20 wealthiest countries, based on World Bank Gross Domestic Product figures from 2004, the most recent available for all nations.

1. United States, $11.67 trillion

2. Japan, $4.6 trillion

3. Germany, $2.7 trillion

4. Britain, $2.1 trillion

5. France, $2.0 trillion

6. Italy, $1.67 trillion

7. China, $1.65 trillion

8. Spain, $991.44 billion

9. Canada, $979.76 billion

10. India, $691.88 billion

11. South Korea, $679.67 billion

12. Mexico, $676.5 billion

13. Australia, $631.26 billion

14. Brazil, $604.86 billion

15. Russia, $582.4 billion

16. Netherlands, $577.26 billion

17. Switzerland, $359.47 billion

18. Belgium, $349.83 billion

19. Sweden, $346.4 billion

20. Turkey, $301.95 billion

Click to expand...

there are many ways to measure wealth. china is second if you count pure gdp, but there are aton of other economic consequences. contraray to popular belief, even thoug chinese make alot less than most americans, they have more buying power because everything is freaking cheap. in a war, china will easily outproduce america. it has a huge trained labor force. amerca's labor force is black people an mexicans. economics have more to do with war than military.