American Economics Thread
- Thread starter Bernard
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On the one hand, I sympathize when workers are treated like garbage.
On the other, working conditions have gotten better and better over the years for everyone, everywhere (in aggregate anyway).
Also, I work in a government office, I know exactly how much I slack off, and how many other people keep themselves occupied with non-productive busywork. Same thing occurs in corporate offices as well.
Working for government is totally different from working for a private company. Working for entry level for IT/BIG 4/wall st wanting for a promotion is totally different from working for most private firms.
Not doing productive work is a common occurrence and it isn't a recent phenomenon. Most of hospitals' human resources and payroll department that I visited year ago, people probably only conducting 2 hours of work per day. But most of these workers probably aren't looking for a promotion or a bright future to begin with. The issue is most youngsters don't see a job as a career anymore as companies are getting better at cutting senior jobs to save costs every so often.
Beside, manual labors never got any better. Restaurant chefs, waitress, or hotel cleaners all still have the same working conditions. The only difference is that they probably got paid a little more.
I worked for private firms too.
Lots of young people don't see their current job as a "career" because they don't know what to do with their life yet. They don't have many responsibilities, and therefore, no real motivation. On the other end, lots of older folks have a family to feed and lots of house making to do at home. So lots of those folks are also not necessarily motivated to look for a career, and instead just want a decent paying job.
If you look at the history of labor in America, every so often, you see a fundamental shift in the structure of the labor market, and how firms managed their human capital. I believe we are undergoing this shift right now. We've been overdue for a better allocation of human capital for at least two decades now.
I disagree. Better healthcare coverage, family leave, worker protection, and better regulations have all improved worker lives, and I've noticed this in just the decade and a half that I've been in the labor market.
Of course, I've made jokes like "What's OSHA?" when I was a warehouse manager for example, but at the end of the day, there were rules and regulations I at least had to use as a reference, and safety had noticeably improved. Fire safety, spacing, weight limits, and so on.
Not everything improves at all times, in every area. There are some things that take a turn for the worse, certainly. But in aggregate, things tend to improve. As they should, and not all of it is down to improvements in technology.
That's not what we are talking about. We're talking about youngsters that have ambition and motivation to seek a career but decided to give up.
We have been told this same crap again and again over the years. Things have gotten worse not better.
Of course you disagree, you live in high tower and didn't bother to look beyond your proximity.
Decades ago, many people work in department stores have both health care and pension and a career path to middle class. What do we have now. Retail is dead. No health care, no pension, no nothing except for a few in the top of the food chain. Manufacture jobs are dead. Most of people that I knew of that went to big 4 didn't last 5 years.
For those department store workers and manufacture workers that no longer have pension or health care, those safety improvement or regulations mean nothing.
How many youngsters now have become freelancers? Do you think they all want to be freelancers. More importantly, there are little and no job protection. Often, people get canned due to the fact that they have higher salary not due to job performance. Young people with ambition aren't going to work their ass off just so they could get fired after a raise or promotion.
No we aren't. First of all, you never specified that you are talking about a subset of young people, specifically working on a career.
Second of all, the article isn't talking about those people either. In fact, it's specifically focusing on people who slack off at work.
Because they have. You wouldn't have lasted a month in any pre 2000 workplace, with that attitude.
Lol. I am willing to bet I worked more minimum wage jobs than you. Your problem is, you look for information to reinforce your prior beliefs. I let information correct them.
What you referring to is declining social mobility, which is different from working conditions.
Furthermore, the part about "retail" is just a lie. I've worked in several retail jobs in my life. All of them offered health insurance and 401(k) options. This is reflected in statistics.
As for manufacturing, what does that have to do with working conditions? It is an entirely different topic.
Says a person who's never seen what workplace injury does to a person's quality of life and lifetime earnings.
Now who's living in their "ivory tower"?
I don't think you've met many "youngsters". And it is precisely people with ambition, who tend to become entrepreneurs or freelancers.
Whatever, not going to waste time of arguing this. The whole premise is youngsters give up on pursuing a career/better future and decide that lying flat or quiet quitting is a better outcome.
You don't know me. You don't know how old I am. Making such assessment is just immature. I started working at age 11. When I was young, I worked 16 hours a day 365 a year running multiple restaurants for years.
I also witnessed so many people that worked just as hard but eventually got burned out and pursued a different way of life. Youngsters nowadays don't want to overwork and get little pay which I get. That's why my friends that still in restaurant businesses are paying top dollars over 5K per month now. If you wanted people to work their ass off, then you better give them a decent wage.
If you ever worked in a restaurant industry 16 hours a day and 365 days a year, let me know.
Are you joking? Most of them got Obama care or are able to receive medicaid through expanded medicaid. I have talked to many retail managers and workers. They don't get 30 hours because after 30 hours companies need to give them insurance. That's the reality.
The reality is uninsured has gone up from low of 12% to over 15% from 70s to 00s until Obama care.
Companies didn't grow a conscience to offer better workplace protection. They were forced by the government regulations and agencies. However, they also took away many benefits.
And most of them end up working at gig companies.
I am not going to waste my time on a lengthy reply (not that there is much of substance to reply to). Needless to say, I don’t believe your self-aggrandizing claims, nor do I miss the hypocrisy of someone saying “you don’t know me” when they just accused their interlocutor of “living in an ivory tower”. You’re rude and argue in bad faith.
For everyone else out there, do not make generalizations from anecdote. That’s not just bad economics, that’s bad critical thinking.
For everyone else out there, do not make generalizations from anecdote. That’s not just bad economics, that’s bad critical thinking.
Slacking off is okay. What I can’t tolerate are people who get paid to do nothing.
Is there improvement?
Let's look at people living paycheck to paycheck.
What about people without permanent contracts or benefits?