American Economics Thread

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Yes, but luxury goods are replaceable and not essential. Large scale industry isn't.

Qing China exported plenty of luxuries like silk and porcelain. Luxury and agriculture are the kinds of unthreatening sectors you want to encourage in your enemies
Qing China and Mughal India were both gunpowder empires that missed industrialization so were stuck with flintlocks and 1700s bronze cannon vs modern industrialized firearms and steel cannons.

But because China kept its agriculture alive, India was 100% conquered by UK while Qing China was merely humiliated by UK. And as bad as the humiliation and half colonization was, it is nothing like being fully conquered. China had some famines here and there but nothing like the Bengal famine or the cash crop agriculture imposed by the colonial regime in India.
 

CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
Yes, but luxury goods are replaceable and not essential. Large scale industry isn't.

Qing China exported plenty of luxuries like silk and porcelain. Luxury and agriculture are the kinds of unthreatening sectors you want to encourage in your enemies
Not being food independent is just asking for your enemies to destroy you to an extent that you're finished for eternity. Think 85-95% of your population dead.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Qing China and Mughal India were both gunpowder empires that missed industrialization so were stuck with flintlocks and 1700s bronze cannon vs modern industrialized firearms and steel cannons.

But because China kept its agriculture alive, India was 100% conquered by UK while Qing China was merely humiliated by UK. And as bad as the humiliation and half colonization was, it is nothing like being fully conquered. China had some famines here and there but nothing like the Bengal famine or the cash crop agriculture imposed by the colonial regime in India.
Not even flintlocks, when the first European army invented the direct precursor to the modern rifle - breech loaded, percussion cap, rifled barrel the most common firearm in the Qing army was the matchlock. Wei Yuan gave a good account of the disparity during the Opium wars.

Indians were behind Europe but not as much as China and they were quick to adapt and modernise. The reason the Mughals were defeated was through centuries of divide and conquer. Going by boat India was geographically a lot closer to Europe.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Not even flintlocks, when the first European army invented the direct precursor to the modern rifle - breech loaded, percussion cap, rifled barrel the most common firearm in the Qing army was the matchlock. Wei Yuan gave a good account of the disparity during the Opium wars.

Indians were behind Europe but not as much as China and they were quick to adapt and modernise. The reason the Mughals were defeated was through centuries of divide and conquer. Going by boat India was geographically a lot closer to Europe.
Further showing how the economic, cultural and political resilience of China saved us while Indian economic, cultural and political weakness doomed them.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Further showing how the economic, cultural and political resilience of China saved us while Indian economic, cultural and political weakness doomed them.
A bit of a tangent but I think there's a lot more to it than that.

China has had gunpowder for 1,000 years more than any other civilisation, but the rate of development was glacially slow. With Europeans on the other hand once they got hold of gunpowder development exploded. China was a massive country with ample resources and no real external threats, Europe on the other hand was overpopulated, highly divided by religion/culture with much less resources. Look at the numbers of wars fought by geographical location:

1035476482.jpg

More wars mean a constant need to innovate.

What really "saved" China was globalism...technology travelled a lot faster. By the time the British empire set foot on China the world was a lot more interconnected. The European empires were also at their peak and would soon come crashing down.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
More wars mean a constant need to innovate.

What really "saved" China was globalism...technology travelled a lot faster. By the time the British empire set foot on China the world was a lot more interconnected. The European empires were also at their peak and would soon come crashing down.

History is also incredibly Eurocentric. It is laudable how well preserved history is in Europe, but when I look at the map, I don't necessarily treat it as a concrete fact. I suspect the Europe is indeed home to the most number of wars, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more dots in other places if we had a time-machine to go back in time and actually see what happened.

Anyway,

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Page 28 and Page 29, Table B-1, for a more detailed breakdown of specific employment sectors. Of course, this data, as always, is survey-based. It is not entirely accurate. Keep that into account. It's much more useful to monitor these reports for trends and MtM changes, than it is for specific numbers.

There is also an
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Anyway, more of the same, same, but "different". The good news is, that inflation has been much more suppressed the last 12 months, than the rather catastrophic mid 2021-mid 2022 period. The bad news is, in my opinion, the slowing increase of rate hikes has had a negative effect on inflation.

It is understandable what the Fed is trying to do, but in my opinion, it's a bit better to raise the rates harder and bring down inflation faster. I think the market can take it. A few more bank collapses and tech layoffs aren't going to collapse the economy, which has demonstrated itself to be resilient.

200,000+ jobs created in April is a darn good result.

The sooner we can get inflation down and get to stability, the sooner the market can adjust to the "new normal" of higher interest rates. This'll force lenders to be realistic with potential loans, and force everyone to deal with the housing shortage crisis.
 

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Michaelsinodef

Senior Member
Registered Member
History is also incredibly Eurocentric. It is laudable how well preserved history is in Europe, but when I look at the map, I don't necessarily treat it as a concrete fact. I suspect the Europe is indeed home to the most number of wars, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more dots in other places if we had a time-machine to go back in time and actually see what happened.
History for Europe is only really well preserved and documented for like the last ~1000 years.

Before that, including Rome etc. it really isn't all that accurate, especially when compared to China.
 

Breadbox

Junior Member
Registered Member
A bit of a tangent but I think there's a lot more to it than that.

China has had gunpowder for 1,000 years more than any other civilisation, but the rate of development was glacially slow. With Europeans on the other hand once they got hold of gunpowder development exploded. China was a massive country with ample resources and no real external threats, Europe on the other hand was overpopulated, highly divided by religion/culture with much less resources. Look at the numbers of wars fought by geographical location:

1035476482.jpg

More wars mean a constant need to innovate.

What really "saved" China was globalism...technology travelled a lot faster. By the time the British empire set foot on China the world was a lot more interconnected. The European empires were also at their peak and would soon come crashing down.
China did not have gunpowder weapons than the rest of the world for a thousand years, maybe a hundred or two at best, gunpowder spread quickly and that map is ass, it's straight up not using Chinese/Indian sources.

Also, Europe is not overpopulated, it's politically divided, think African tribes engaging in constant small scale wars with one another, but larger.
Europe has constant small wars while China have long periods of peace followed by mega wars, which is why a newly found dynasty are strong militarily at first, but rapidly declines afterward, the same applies today.
China in the 50s have poor equipment but impeccable will and tactics, afterwards it's straight up ass from the 70s to 2000s as the military is almost completely defunded while experienced commanders retire during the period.
 
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