American Economics Thread

CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
I'm not really sure what the point here is.

One of the primary issues is in fact, a lack of affordable housing. Not just because easy credit has allowed prices to shoot through the roof, but also because developers focus on creating housing stock that yields the most profit, i.e. Mansions. Lack of housing in United States is largely a policy failure (on multiple levels), not really a failure of capacity. America can certainly build things.

As for the vacations... I don't really know if I would consider it a negative. Americans take fewer vacations and work more hours, but as far as I now, the culture with the most toxic work culture is by far East Asia.



I was talking about cpi, not core cpi. Though looking at my response, I can see that I did not specify that. And yes, I am aware that I am responding to a comment that talked about core CPI specifically. My point was, that it was not unusually to see high MtM CPI in general.
More hours doesn't mean more productive. It's a lot of performative work. Managers managing managers. A lot of pretending and time wasting.
 

USTBasisRollCarry

New Member
Registered Member
How much new housing stock being built is affordable housing vs McMansions?
Most of it is McMansions with smaller amounts of multifamily; mostly due to land use. Still indicative of market demand and revealed preferences since municipal governments that set zoning regulations are elected.
Average American has how many days of vacation to take joyrides or tourist flights?

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You answered it yourself: 16 days.

The broader point I was trying to make that simply because "housing, food, and transportation" take up large portions of household budgets is not indicative of just surviving, when a substantial part of the housing, food and transport is unambiguously elective.

Another wrinkle to which you allude to is that aggregations of US households aren't particularly insightful since the United States is a highly unequal country with a high gini coefficient (any distribution of income/wealth/vacation/etc is going to be highly concentrated in >~p75); nevertheless, at the same income percentiles compared to the EU, most everyone except the poorest US households do better than similarly situated European household counterparts.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Most of it is McMansions with smaller amounts of multifamily; mostly due to land use. Still indicative of market demand and revealed preferences since municipal governments that set zoning regulations are elected.

You answered it yourself: 16 days.

The broader point I was trying to make that simply because "housing, food, and transportation" take up large portions of household budgets is not indicative of just surviving, when a substantial part of the housing, food and transport is unambiguously elective.

Another wrinkle to which you allude to is that aggregations of US households aren't particularly insightful since the United States is a highly unequal country with a high gini coefficient (any distribution of income/wealth/vacation/etc is going to be highly concentrated in >~p75); nevertheless, at the same income percentiles compared to the EU, most everyone except the poorest US households do better than similarly situated European household counterparts.

In NZ minimum 20 days of paid annual leave and 10 days paid sick leave. PLUS 12 days of paid public holidays ... so total minimum 42 days
 

Ash46

New Member
Registered Member
; nevertheless, at the same income percentiles compared to the EU, most everyone except the poorest US households do better than similarly situated European household counterparts.
Sure they earn more but doing better? I doubt it
First the healthcare, not all jobs have great healthcare. Move outside the tech and finance field, and healthcare insurance have huge co pays.

Then the education, colleges cost significantly less in eu than American counterparts.
These two are essential for social mobility. so sure at same percentile, Americans earn more but leave the top10-20% and for the rest the situation isn't better from the Europeans
 

USTBasisRollCarry

New Member
Registered Member
In NZ minimum 20 days of paid annual leave and 10 days paid sick leave. PLUS 12 days of paid public holidays ... so total minimum 42 days
Yep. no doubt about it that for lower income strata in the United States, they have fewer days off than other developed/industrialized economy counterparts
 

USTBasisRollCarry

New Member
Registered Member
Sure they earn more but doing better? I doubt it
First the healthcare, not all jobs have great healthcare. Move outside the tech and finance field, and healthcare insurance have huge co pays."
Eurostat reports that 12% of EU GDP is spent on healthcare and it is split 6%-6% between public and private payers (
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). Meanwhile, 8% of the US CPI is healthcare so if anything, costs are largely comparable outside of catastrophic accident and injury.

For households under 400% of the federal poverty line, exchange subsidies should mitigate their healthcare costs and the ACA mandated out-of-pocket maximums and soft premium caps so those all combined substantially limit healthcare burden on US households.
Then the education, colleges cost significantly less in eu than American counterparts.
These two are essential for social mobility. so sure at same percentile, Americans earn more but leave the top10-20% and for the rest the situation isn't better from the Europeans
Certain state flagships and private universities are quite expensive but the majority of US households (i.e., those not in the top10-20%) send their children off to 2yr or regional 4yr universities where tuition prices are quite low.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Most of it is McMansions with smaller amounts of multifamily; mostly due to land use. Still indicative of market demand and revealed preferences since municipal governments that set zoning regulations are elected.

You answered it yourself: 16 days.

The broader point I was trying to make that simply because "housing, food, and transportation" take up large portions of household budgets is not indicative of just surviving, when a substantial part of the housing, food and transport is unambiguously elective.

Another wrinkle to which you allude to is that aggregations of US households aren't particularly insightful since the United States is a highly unequal country with a high gini coefficient (any distribution of income/wealth/vacation/etc is going to be highly concentrated in >~p75); nevertheless, at the same income percentiles compared to the EU, most everyone except the poorest US households do better than similarly situated European household counterparts.
doing better? no. earning more nominal dollars? yes. big difference.

doing better doesn't mean rapidly declining life expectancy and increasing maternal mortality rates.

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The data are featured in a new report, “
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” The report shows non-Hispanic American Indian-Alaskan Native people (AIAN) had the biggest drop in life expectancy in 2021 – 1.9 years. AIAN people had a life expectancy at birth of 65.2 years in 2021 – equal to the life expectancy of the total U.S. population in 1944. AIAN life expectancy has declined 6.6 years from 2019 to 2021.

Non-Hispanic white people in the United States had the second biggest decline in life expectancy in 2021 – one full year from 77.4 in 2020 to 76.4 in 2021. Non-Hispanic Black people had the third biggest decline, a 0.7 year drop from 71.5 years in 2020 to 70.8 in 2021. Life expectancy at birth in 2021 was the lowest for both groups since 1995. After a large (4.0 year) drop in life expectancy from 2019 to 2020, Hispanic people in the U.S. had a slight decline in 2021 of 0.2 years to 77.6 years. Life expectancy for non-Hispanic Asian people also dropped slightly in 2021 – 0.1 years – to 83.5 years, the highest life expectancy of any race/ethnic group included in this analysis.
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The number of women who died during pregnancy or shortly after rose 40% to 1,205 in 2021, compared with 861 in 2020 and 754 in 2019, the National Center for Health Statistics said Thursday. The increase pushed the maternal-mortality rate to 33 deaths per 100,000 live births, the highest since 1965, compared with 24 in 2020 and 20 in 2019.

33/100k as a comparable:

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In 2017, maternal mortality ratio for Syrian Arab Republic was 31 deaths per 100,000 live births. Maternal mortality ratio of Syrian Arab Republic increased from 25 deaths per 100,000 live births in 2003 to 31 deaths per 100,000 live births in 2017 growing at an average annual rate of 1.58%.

Another wrinkle to which you allude to is that aggregations of US households aren't particularly insightful since the United States is a highly unequal country with a high gini coefficient (any distribution of income/wealth/vacation/etc is going to be highly concentrated in >~p75); nevertheless, at the same income percentiles compared to the EU, most everyone except the poorest US households do better than similarly situated European household counterparts.
You are correct in this, but most advanced economies don't seem to struggle with inequality.

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8.841.62017
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18.59.414.0201441.52019
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54.48.668.1200141.12012

in fact it seems that inequality is significant and detrimental.

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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I'm not really sure what the point here is.

One of the primary issues is in fact, a lack of affordable housing. Not just because easy credit has allowed prices to shoot through the roof, but also because developers focus on creating housing stock that yields the most profit, i.e. Mansions. Lack of housing in United States is largely a policy failure (on multiple levels), not really a failure of capacity. America can certainly build things.

As for the vacations... I don't really know if I would consider it a negative. Americans take fewer vacations and work more hours, but as far as I now, the culture with the most toxic work culture is by far East Asia.



I was talking about cpi, not core cpi. Though looking at my response, I can see that I did not specify that. And yes, I am aware that I am responding to a comment that talked about core CPI specifically. My point was, that it was not unusually to see high MtM CPI in general.
at this point, policy might as well be physical. could they build 500k Russian style apartment blocks to sell to the poor with income price ratio equal to that in the 1950's? due to the political changes required, it might as well be asking them to build a colony on Alpha Centauri.

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HighGround

Senior Member
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at this point, policy might as well be physical. could they build 500k Russian style apartment blocks to sell to the poor with income price ratio equal to that in the 1950's? due to the political changes required, it might as well be asking them to build a colony on Alpha Centauri.

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Yes. We absolutely could.

The issue with infrastructure, which Noah doesn't explicitly say for some reason, is relying on contracting Unions to build it. Because every government program also has to be a jobs program.

Things would get built a lot faster if there was competitive bidding (along with quite a few other parameters) without a requirement to use union labor and this and that and whatnot.

If I was in charge, I would simply hire Chinese firms. I'd probably get the boot or get voted out within 2-3 years, but at least I would've actually built something.
 
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