heheh...oh yes they would! Yes indeedy, boy would they.
Got to know and work with some of them on some intiial development of the Virginia class some years ago. Very, very sharp bunch of people who know exactly what they are about.
Aircraft Carriers
- Thread starter bd popeye
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Got to know and work with some of them on some intiial development of the Virginia class some years ago. Very, very sharp bunch of people who know exactly what they are about.
Oh Jedi Master Obi Wan..Do you have any other renditions i.e. drawings of a Forrestal class? Say for instance with a ski jump?Just curious.
I'll have a think, there is an idea brewing as we speak....
Idea Brewed! Not one, but TWO ski Jumps to increase launch rates and provide a degree of redundancy against battle damage.
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Looks interesting Obi Wan, I guess it's only supposed to operate STOVL planes now. It would be a challanging experiance for a CTOL pilot to approch this deck and only see the skyjump rise short before touch down.
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In response to the SSCVN discussion we had here and that was also going on in the "dragon's fury" thread in "general military" I did a little moddeling again.
First is the idea provided by Jeff himself.
Finally it has become 25m/82ft wide and 196m/643ft long. The cats are 80m/262ft long. The lifts are just big enough to lift F-35B airplanes. It's accompanied by an Ohio SSGN for szie comparrison.
The next one was supposed by Killa_Dilla as a CATOBAR version supposed to operate SuperHornets.
When I was trying to moddel your proposel, I had real difficulties with the dimensions you provided.
First off, the runway is very short. On current CVNs the cat take off run is over 300ft if I'm correct. Your's is less than one third of that. Though modern EM cats might be able to provide that acceleration (but I somewhat doubt it), it seems also hard to believe for me that the materials of the front gear could sustain those forces over longer periods (many launches). It's similar with the landing. As I understood it, you even thought of simoultanous launches and recoveys on the same deck. For that your decceleration space was very limited. See reasons above.
Because of that, the vessel became much longer. But that is still not the main problem. It's the beam. If you want Seahawks to be stored with unfolded rotorblades in the inner hull, it has to be 120ft wide (as you suggested). Now besides that are the lifts. Now comes the problem. The ship must have that width over the complete hight of the hanger. And in your drawings, that wasn't the case. And then came the angled decks on each side wide enough to have to aircraft side by side on them.
Finally the sub became 290m/951ft long and the outer hull 60m/197ft wide.
If you look at it, it's far from being streamlind. The sub with the lowest length / beam ratio I could find was the russian type 941 Typhoon with 7,4/1, you have 4,8/1 while most subs have 9-12+/1. The angled decks make large surfaces wich take a lot of force from the water while moving. Therefore, maneuvering will become very difficult. Another point to me is the complex alignment of the pressure hull and the many elevators. And the complexity issue is not helped with the fact that they are computer controlled. They still pose a significant risk of malfuntion on many spots and then might be difficult to repair. All together it will at least be a real beast when it comes to maeuvering and cruising, IMO.
Coming to carrier ops, I still see no need in storing 3 Helos with unfolded rotorblades for fast ops. They take up a lot of space. Accompanying SSNs shoulf help here.
If one really feels the need for a CTOL capable SSCVN, I would think this is the most promising. With a relatively small deck, you don't need to much oversight. And such a ship could be reserved for the most experianced pilots to safely land exactly on the centerline.
_________________________________________________________________
In response to the SSCVN discussion we had here and that was also going on in the "dragon's fury" thread in "general military" I did a little moddeling again.
First is the idea provided by Jeff himself.
Finally it has become 25m/82ft wide and 196m/643ft long. The cats are 80m/262ft long. The lifts are just big enough to lift F-35B airplanes. It's accompanied by an Ohio SSGN for szie comparrison.
The next one was supposed by Killa_Dilla as a CATOBAR version supposed to operate SuperHornets.
When I was trying to moddel your proposel, I had real difficulties with the dimensions you provided.
First off, the runway is very short. On current CVNs the cat take off run is over 300ft if I'm correct. Your's is less than one third of that. Though modern EM cats might be able to provide that acceleration (but I somewhat doubt it), it seems also hard to believe for me that the materials of the front gear could sustain those forces over longer periods (many launches). It's similar with the landing. As I understood it, you even thought of simoultanous launches and recoveys on the same deck. For that your decceleration space was very limited. See reasons above.
Because of that, the vessel became much longer. But that is still not the main problem. It's the beam. If you want Seahawks to be stored with unfolded rotorblades in the inner hull, it has to be 120ft wide (as you suggested). Now besides that are the lifts. Now comes the problem. The ship must have that width over the complete hight of the hanger. And in your drawings, that wasn't the case. And then came the angled decks on each side wide enough to have to aircraft side by side on them.
Finally the sub became 290m/951ft long and the outer hull 60m/197ft wide.
If you look at it, it's far from being streamlind. The sub with the lowest length / beam ratio I could find was the russian type 941 Typhoon with 7,4/1, you have 4,8/1 while most subs have 9-12+/1. The angled decks make large surfaces wich take a lot of force from the water while moving. Therefore, maneuvering will become very difficult. Another point to me is the complex alignment of the pressure hull and the many elevators. And the complexity issue is not helped with the fact that they are computer controlled. They still pose a significant risk of malfuntion on many spots and then might be difficult to repair. All together it will at least be a real beast when it comes to maeuvering and cruising, IMO.
Coming to carrier ops, I still see no need in storing 3 Helos with unfolded rotorblades for fast ops. They take up a lot of space. Accompanying SSNs shoulf help here.
If one really feels the need for a CTOL capable SSCVN, I would think this is the most promising. With a relatively small deck, you don't need to much oversight. And such a ship could be reserved for the most experianced pilots to safely land exactly on the centerline.
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I'll have a think, there is an idea brewing as we speak....
Idea Brewed! Not one, but TWO ski Jumps to increase launch rates and provide a degree of redundancy against battle damage.
Nice concept. But that ski ramp on the angle..will the "runway" be long enough to launch aircraft? And what sort of CVW do you see in? I see at least 36+ JSF. Helos and maybe Ospreys for various roles.
Great idea Obi Wan.
The second runway on the angle will be at least as long as most sea Harriers use now, remember with a ski jump you don't need the full length of the deck as USMC harriers do now aboard LHD/LHAs (flat deck only). The angle lauch area is probably similar in size to the main runway of smaller CVs like Garibaldi, so would have little problem accomodating up to four F-35s. The purpose of the project is to provide a flexible ship that can deploy several different air groups as required, so one possible combination would include F-35Bs and Ospreys, any ratio of up to 60-70 in total! The second ski jump on the angle would allow alert fighters/CAP to stand at readiness to launch while the main runway is used for helos/ospreys/football match/your suggestion!
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The CVF Carrier Alliance got a name check on the BBC local news (South Today) today, in connection with a story about the VT group winning an order for three ships for a caribbean island's coast guard (Jamaica? missed the first thirty seconds as someone was talking in the room). They didn't say much but the tone was positive and upbeat, 'an order was expected soon'. Here's hoping...
I found these great pictures on the US DoD website. They have awesome pictures.
1) The Italian Navy (Marina Militare) ship Garibaldi Class Aircraft Carrier MM GIUSEPPE GARIBALDI (C 551) (foreground) and the French Navy Charles de Gaulle Class Aircraft Carrier CHARLES DE GAULLE (R 91) steam in parade formation through the Arabian Sea. (Released to Public)
2)Four ships from three nations sail together during the NATO exercise Display Determination '91. The ships are, from front to back: the Spanish aircraft carrier PRINCIPE DE ASTURIAS (R-11), the amphibious assault ship USS WASP (LHD-1), the aircraft carrier USS FORRESTAL (CV-59) and the British aircraft carrier HMS INVINCIBLE (R-05). (Released to Public) DoD photo by: PH2 R. C. WITHAM Date Shot: 7 Oct 1991
3) A starboard bow view of the Spanish navy's aircraft carrier PRINCIPE DE ASTURIAS (R-11) executing a turn during the joint exercise Dragon Hammer '92. (Released to Public) DoD photo by: PHC JACK C. BAHM Date Shot: 5 May 1992
4) A starboard bow view of the Italian Navy, GARIBALDI CLASS: Aircraft Carrier, GIUSEPPE GARIBALDI (C 551), underway in the Atlantic Ocean (Released to Public) DoD photo by: PHAN ROB GATON, USN Date Shot: 12 Jul 2004
5) The Brazilian Navy Clemenceau Class Aircraft Carrier BNS SAO PAULO (A 12) (foreground) comes along side as the US Navy (USN) USS RONALD REAGAN (CVN 76) transits around South America to its new homeport of San Diego. (Released to Public) DoD photo by: PH1 JOHN LILL, USN Date Shot: 8 Jun 2004
1) The Italian Navy (Marina Militare) ship Garibaldi Class Aircraft Carrier MM GIUSEPPE GARIBALDI (C 551) (foreground) and the French Navy Charles de Gaulle Class Aircraft Carrier CHARLES DE GAULLE (R 91) steam in parade formation through the Arabian Sea. (Released to Public)
2)Four ships from three nations sail together during the NATO exercise Display Determination '91. The ships are, from front to back: the Spanish aircraft carrier PRINCIPE DE ASTURIAS (R-11), the amphibious assault ship USS WASP (LHD-1), the aircraft carrier USS FORRESTAL (CV-59) and the British aircraft carrier HMS INVINCIBLE (R-05). (Released to Public) DoD photo by: PH2 R. C. WITHAM Date Shot: 7 Oct 1991
3) A starboard bow view of the Spanish navy's aircraft carrier PRINCIPE DE ASTURIAS (R-11) executing a turn during the joint exercise Dragon Hammer '92. (Released to Public) DoD photo by: PHC JACK C. BAHM Date Shot: 5 May 1992
4) A starboard bow view of the Italian Navy, GARIBALDI CLASS: Aircraft Carrier, GIUSEPPE GARIBALDI (C 551), underway in the Atlantic Ocean (Released to Public) DoD photo by: PHAN ROB GATON, USN Date Shot: 12 Jul 2004
5) The Brazilian Navy Clemenceau Class Aircraft Carrier BNS SAO PAULO (A 12) (foreground) comes along side as the US Navy (USN) USS RONALD REAGAN (CVN 76) transits around South America to its new homeport of San Diego. (Released to Public) DoD photo by: PH1 JOHN LILL, USN Date Shot: 8 Jun 2004
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