Aircraft Carriers III

Air Force Brat said:

they are perfectly capable of "projecting power"

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How much jet fuel and aviation ammo Izumo has?
How many meaningful long range strike sorties her spotting will allow for?

Let's be frank, while Izumo class becomes an interesting light carrier (certainly in a league of its own compared to all these wannabe light carrier LHDs), it's still a light carrier.

Provision of CAP, greatly improved situational awareness and additional helicopters for ASW work is what it can do. Strike capability is only secondary here.

Obi Wan Russell said:

They may only operate a single sqn of F-35Bs but 12 of them are more than a match for the 24 or so J-15s from a Chinese carrier, and still carry enough weapons to strike the PLAN CVBG.

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In an empty world, perhaps they are a match.
In a real world, where J-15s with J-16 support just bluntly outnumber, outrange and outcarry F-35B - few F-35Bs realistically available in the air simultaneously can at best perform CAP, preferably within CSG information field.(and hope it won't get jammed)

"Enough weapons" really isn't enough even to reliably punch through Chinese AA screen in a normal situation, not even counting fighters and not even expecting crippling damage(we aren't discussing Soviet ASCMs here). And this "enough weapons" with unrefueled F-35b will put CSG into peril, since conditions of such a strike a very strict(range).

Jura said:

this thread:
MSDF helicopter flattop Izumo designed as aircraft carrier

February 23, 2018

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Despite the Defense Ministry's denial that the helicopter carrier Izumo, launched in 2015, was planned to be refitted into an aircraft carrier, former Maritime Self-Defense Force executives confirmed that that is how the blueprints were drawn up.

“It is only reasonable to design (the Izumo) with the prospect of possible changes of the circumstances in the decades ahead,” a then MSDF executive told The Asahi Shimbun. “We viewed that whether the Izumo should be actually refitted could be decided by the government.”

The former executive said a consensus was reached privately among the MSDF that the Izumo should be considered for conversion into an aircraft carrier. But the MSDF couldn't explain the need publicly due to the government's view that aircraft carriers capable of launching large-scale attacks are equivalent to the military capability prohibited by the war-renouncing Article 9 of the Constitution.

Ever since the Izumo's construction, experts both in and outside Japan have pointed out the possibility of turning it into a full-fledged aircraft carrier.

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Well, they finally came out and admitted it.

The Ixumo has been designed with an upgrade in mind. Whether it evr happens or not, only time will tell.

But they have finally said straight forward that it was designed to do so...and the only aircraft that can make that happen (realistically) is the F-35B.

Jura said:

in fact Japan is super-smart as
"The sources said buying complete aircraft from the United States, at about $100 million each, will save Japan about $30 million per airframe."
Exclusive: Japan to buy at least 20 more F-35A stealth fighters - sources
February 21, 2018

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LOL

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Isn't that awesome! partners flying this airplane are falling in love, in fact the German Aviators want the airplane, hope the politicians don't shut em down??

Air Force Brat said:

Isn't that awesome! partners flying this airplane are falling in love, in fact the German Aviators want the airplane, hope the politicians don't shut em down??

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bro you missed completely the point of the post you quoted (or pretend to have missed it LOL), long short: Japan first spent I don't know how much on FACO (don't worry LOL it's “final assembly and check out” plant), later found out it should be cheaper to buy directly from LockMart-US

that's what I called "super-smart" Feb 28, 2018

Well fancy that...

Obi Wan Russell said:

Well fancy that...View attachment 45734

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SamuraiBlue told me about that manga sometime back, next year.

Life has been known to imitate Art. What I think we are seeing here is the same kind of Drive and hype that was seen before the Chinese Finally took the wraps off the Liaoning. A push to normalize the idea to the Japanese populous of the JMSDF as a Carrier Navy.

Jura said:

Japan first spent I don't know how much on FACO (don't worry LOL it's “final assembly and check out” plant), later found out it should be cheaper to buy directly from LockMart-US

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Well, they knew about it from the start, it's not like they had found out this last month. It's a statement of a fact and they surely got their reasons for the move bigger than those millions.

Jura said:

bro you missed completely the point of the post you quoted (or pretend to have missed it LOL), long short: Japan first spent I don't know how much on FACO (don't worry LOL it's “final assembly and check out” plant), later found out it should be cheaper to buy directly from LockMart-US

that's what I called "super-smart" Feb 28, 2018

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and why would you assume that I missed that, just another testament to the lean machine that LockMart has put together to build the F-35, as Master Jeff has repeated, over and over, quantity drives price, the more you produce, the cheaper each individual aircraft becomes.

so its no surprise that LockMart can build you one, cheaper than you can build your own,, testimony that Jeff Head is right!

That's why the Air Force and Navy delaying their full buys, drives up the price of their eventual aircraft, and every other partner as well!

my comment was that if Japan is buying 20 more, they have to be "Very Happy" with their initial birds from Ft. Worth!

While you don't like "concurrency", had we gone the long drawn out protracted road, those birds would still be costing us 220 million a pop, we would not have the 4 or so operational squadrons of aircraft we do tonight!

and instead of 180 F-22's, we would only have 60, instead of 245 F-35s, we would only have 45?? that is NOT acceptable in the nasty world we live in, that additional 120 F-22's and 200 F-35's are 320 5 Gen aircraft, some of those will need an expensive upgrade, others a few major "tweaks", some may be permanently relegated to an advanced training status, with limited war making capability?

so while you may not like it, it is wasteful in some sense, its very efficient in another sense,,,, without those 300 5 Gens lining the revetments,,, nasty people would be encouraged and happy to "hurt us",,, we continue to crank out "big medicine" to deal with our Malefactor's!

Janiz said:

Well, they knew about it from the start, it's not like they had found out this last month. It's a statement of a fact and they surely got their reasons for the move bigger than those millions.

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Well the reasons are very simple, Japan wants and needs experience building 5 Gens, and they will fill a "niche" for production of aircraft and maintenance of others,,, no doubt they are very happy to have the Asian F-35 FACO on their block,,, also gives the US and others an additional incentive to defend the Mother Island..

as I said, the Japanese are no doubt very happy to be buying those aircraft and saving 30% off the most efficient production cost they can achieve,,, they will get better, and they will be building LockMart aircraft and assemblies for other customers, so their efficiency will go up, and those airplanes they build for others will pay for the airplanes they are buying from LockMart, its a sweet deal for everybody!

all of our partners are very happy with their F-35's, and as I continue to remind everyone, they are very expensive,,, in the end that Mitsubishi FACO will likely build something very similar to the F-22, if not better!

I'll say one more thing on this page, without quoting anyone (I don't strive to have the last word), which is

F-35 Project resembles Comecon to me

LOL link for those not coming from Eastern Block:

time will tell the rest