Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

bd popeye said:

No pilots this age on an USN CVN...well maybe the Admiral..

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Yes...I mentioned that either earlier on this thread or another.

It seems all the Russian Navy pilots I see are men in their 40s, maybe 50s. Very few, if any pilots in the Russian Navy that I have seen in their late 20s or early 30s.

It's like those boys are the ones who learned how to fly those SU-33s and they are going to fly them until they keel over. Big mistake IMHO if that is the case.

Jeff Head said:

Yes...I mentioned that either earlier on this thread or another.

It seems all the Russian Navy pilots I see are men in their 40s, maybe 50s. Very few, if any pilots in the Russian Navy that I have seen in their late 20s or early 30s.

It's like those boys are the ones who learned how to fly those SU-33s and they are going to fly them until they keel over. Big mistake IMHO if that is the case.

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They need to start immediately replacing those gents..otherwise their carrier plans for the future will wither away.

bd popeye said:

Good pics Jeff..

No pilots this age on an USN CVN...well maybe the Admiral..

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too bad, you don't get good at what you're doing till you get a little "seasoning", its no accident the old salts had the reputation as "seaman", pilots are the same, it takes an educated butt to "know" what shes telling you, aircraft or vessels, just like that bidness with the airliner this summer, its not following needles, its called "FLYING", the Russians are showing a little wisdom here, Sully would have never let his bird bleed off energy without, his butt screaming at him, really!

bd popeye said:

They need to start immediately replacing those gents..otherwise their carrier plans for the future will wither away.

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Nah! theres always some young pup wantin your bone, and he'll keep biting and fighting till one day you say, "oh what the heck???? I don't have any teeth left anyway, then you'll let him have it..

Jeff Head said:

It's like those boys are the ones who learned how to fly those SU-33s and they are going to fly them until they keel over. Big mistake IMHO if that is the case.

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Russians mostly train people over 30 and with rank of Captain (at least) from VVS Flanker units for service on Kuznetsov flying Su-33s . Reason is simple - they have a very limited number of Su-33s and even less training aircraft . In fact , I think they have just one operational Su-33 UB ( two-seater training version ) made in 1999 . Therefore , usual path for Russian Su-33 pilot would be service on land-based Su-27 for some years , then conversion training on Su-25 UTG for carrier ops and then onto Su-33 .

As Russia now switched to Mig-29K , you are probably right - they going to retire pilots with their planes New generation of Russian pilots will probably be much younger because this time there will be enough Mig-29KUBs for them .

thunderchief said:

Russians mostly train people over 30 and with rank of Captain (at least) from VVS Flanker units for service on Kuznetsov flying Su-33s . Reason is simple - they have a very limited number of Su-33s and even less training aircraft . In fact , I think they have just one operational Su-33 UB ( two-seater training version ) made in 1999 . Therefore , usual path for Russian Su-33 pilot would be service on land-based Su-27 for some years , then conversion training on Su-25 UTG for carrier ops and then onto Su-33 .

As Russia now switched to Mig-29K , you are probably right - they going to retire pilots with their planes New generation of Russian pilots will probably be much younger because this time there will be enough Mig-29KUBs for them .

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Chief you are probably right, I have nothing against younger pilots, but Sullenberger as someone who learned to fly in Vietnam, and flew F-4s, had real world experience in heavy aircraft, I am sure he had plenty of engine failures and emergencies in the simulator, he is an "old head", to ditch that airbus on the Hudson, took confidence, to do it without "breaking it, took finesse", to evacuate his passengers and crew without a fatality, was an act of God's Grace and Mercy. I'm sure Sully has a great instrument scan, he knew his aircraft, his nailed his airspeed, and he set it down like a feather...... lots of good lessons there, the lessons in California are real as well, but costly. Ideally you let the kids ride with the OLD MAN, if he's a good teacher, they will learn,,,,,,or else he will "bust them".....period.

bd popeye said:

They need to start immediately replacing those gents..otherwise their carrier plans for the future will wither away.

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I suspect the Russian carrier is really being maintained on the basis of minimum effort required to preserve a core skill cadre, not on the basis of readiness to actually fight.

These two documentaries made in 2013 shows both operations and life on board the Admiral Kuznetsov. The ship from this documentary seems to be very well maintained and the horror stories we hear about the living conditions on board the Admiral Kuznetsov are either exaggerated or outdated. Since her refit in 2006 there has been no reports of major problems on the Admiral Kuznetsov. And since 2007 she has been making trips to Syria almost every year without any incidents. That shows you that the ship is very well maintained. The Russians have money these days.

The problem with the ship is its archaic systems on board. We have only recently seen a modern navagation computer on board the Admiral Kuznetsov its the same one as on board the Vikramaditya. The ships systems looks like a throw back to the 1960's or 70's. And i don't think the deck is a non slip surface either. When the much talked about refit will come is anyones guess.

I think the prospect for Russia to build a carrier from scratch is not so good. I'm not sure if the shipyard at Severodvinsk is up to the task.

[video=youtube;QA_hMnClVfs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA_hMnClVfs[/video]

[video=youtube;wBQQuK-9MS0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBQQuK-9MS0[/video]

Franklin said:

I think the prospect for Russia to build a carrier from scratch is not so good. I'm not sure if the shipyard at Severodvinsk is up to the task.

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Russians have know-how to build medium sized carriers , at slow pace (one-by-one) . Question is what are they going to do with them ? In current situation they could operate 1 or 2 (3 would be a stretch ) . That is not enough to effectively oppose US & NATO . In case of war main role for them would be to defend own submarine bastions - mirror of the Soviet doctrine . In such case they would again have to be armed much more then their Western counterparts (SAMs , ASMs , ASW weapons etc .. ) sacrificing aviation facilities .

On the other hand , there are those in Russia who advocate aircraft carriers as international diplomatic tool . Sort of , Russian ships sailing across the world (in peace time of course ) , promoting Russian interests . Such fleet could be useful against less sophisticated opponents in neo-colonial interventions (so called peacekeeping ) , but not in "real" war . In that scenario question would be how much resources should they pour in whole program - would one aircraft carrier be enough in order to save money for more important things in armed forces ? Or they still need two to maintain prestige ?

bd popeye said:

They need to start immediately replacing those gents..otherwise their carrier plans for the future will wither away.

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That may already be happening behind the scenes. The Russians are going over to MiG-29K's and the Russian navy has already recieved its first planes. They have a very good twin seat MiG-29KUB as trainers. So maybe when the MiG-29K's comes on board the Admiral Kuznetsov it will come with younger pilots as well.