Air Superiority over Chinese coastal waters

Cheng

New Member
Whilst on the thread about using 20000 fishing boats for anti-submarine warfare, someone brought up the topic of air superiority over Chinese coastal waters, as it would be required to protect those fishing boats.

Now, as we all know, the best place to destroy a plane is when it is a sitting duck on the ground.
Alternatively, the runway or flight deck can be disabled, so that aircraft can no longer take off or land.

So we see today, an array of ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and long-range rockets have been developed to do this.

But inevitability there will be some opposing fighters in the air.

So I'm thinking that Chinese AWACS and fighter jets would be good enough and numerous enough to establish air superiority over any opposing Air Force - except for the presence of stealth fighters who could operate with ease against them.

So stripping away the stealth is key.

Given that 80% of radar stealth is about how the shape of the aircraft has been optimised to ensure radar waves are reflected away from the direction of the radar sender/receiver, the Swedes came up with the idea of having 900 ground-based transmitters, so that some radio waves would always be reflected from a stealth aircraft back to a radar receiver.

This radar receiver system held a model of all the expected radio emissions, and with some processing power, could track the route of a stealth airplane.

The beauty was that the 900 radio transmitters only cost $10000 each, and are so cheap that they are throwaway.

So can this concept be applied to the coastal waters near China with:

1. Say 10000 wooden tubs with an anchor to hold those throwaway transmitters.
2. A Type-52D air defense destroyer to act as silent radar receiver with a lot of processing power to track a stealth aircraft

===

Alternatively, could this be implemented with an aerial version, as the F-22 looks like it has a lot of curved radar-reflecting surfaces on the top of the airplane.

I'm thinking of cheap airships like the one DARPA had built for $1million to act as the throwaway platform, which the Chinese could get down to say $500K
Or maybe a fishing boat could tow a much cheaper air blimp for say $100K

Then there would be a $200million AWACS aircraft operating silently in receiver mode, instead of broadcasting its presence and being shot down.
Or possibly a dedicated receiver aircraft could be used, which would cost less as it doesn't have to transmit.

These airborne transmitters can be easily shot down, but I'm thinking that the air-to-air missiles would cost more than the airships or air blimps.
So it would be a case of attrition warfare between balloons and missiles, tying up a very limited number of stealth fighters.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Whilst on the thread about using 20000 fishing boats for anti-submarine warfare, someone brought up the topic of air superiority over Chinese coastal waters, as it would be required to protect those fishing boats.

Now, as we all know, the best place to destroy a plane is when it is a sitting duck on the ground.
Alternatively, the runway or flight deck can be disabled, so that aircraft can no longer take off or land.

So we see today, an array of ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and long-range rockets have been developed to do this.

But inevitability there will be some opposing fighters in the air.

So I'm thinking that Chinese AWACS and fighter jets would be good enough and numerous enough to establish air superiority over any opposing Air Force - except for the presence of stealth fighters who could operate with ease against them.

So stripping away the stealth is key.

Given that 80% of radar stealth is about how the shape of the aircraft has been optimised to ensure radar waves are reflected away from the direction of the radar sender/receiver, the Swedes came up with the idea of having 900 ground-based transmitters, so that some radio waves would always be reflected from a stealth aircraft back to a radar receiver.

This radar receiver system held a model of all the expected radio emissions, and with some processing power, could track the route of a stealth airplane.

The beauty was that the 900 radio transmitters only cost $10000 each, and are so cheap that they are throwaway.

So can this concept be applied to the coastal waters near China with:

1. Say 10000 wooden tubs with an anchor to hold those throwaway transmitters.
2. A Type-52D air defense destroyer to act as silent radar receiver with a lot of processing power to track a stealth aircraft

===

Alternatively, could this be implemented with an aerial version, as the F-22 looks like it has a lot of curved radar-reflecting surfaces on the top of the airplane.

I'm thinking of cheap airships like the one DARPA had built for $1million to act as the throwaway platform, which the Chinese could get down to say $500K
Or maybe a fishing boat could tow a much cheaper air blimp for say $100K

Then there would be a $200million AWACS aircraft operating silently in receiver mode, instead of broadcasting its presence and being shot down.
Or possibly a dedicated receiver aircraft could be used, which would cost less as it doesn't have to transmit.

These airborne transmitters can be easily shot down, but I'm thinking that the air-to-air missiles would cost more than the airships or air blimps.
So it would be a case of attrition warfare between balloons and missiles, tying up a very limited number of stealth fighters.

Again with the war of attrition and again with the sacrificing of Chinese people in a war. That is the type of mentality that I really do not understand. China had the money and resources now and had spent heaps in R&D, had good military hardware up and running and had lots of other systems that could be used against your opponents.

Why don't you just bring the bloody war to these opponent instead of still thinking of the great people war and that war be fought in the Chinese shore... even if you win the war, the main casualty will be Chinese people and those that sacrifices themselves because of some cheapskate systems when all you need is to just strike at your immediate opponent and force the card to them.

I believe why the Chinese had been so hard in R&D in recent decade and introducing very modern and capable systems recently was exactly to project their power to faraway shores so that in time of war, the battles will not be carried out in China mainland. So my advise is... quit thinking of defensive and focus more on offensive... even our (I am an oversea Chinese) ancestor mentioned that "久守必失" (and if you are a Chinese, you should understand that four words).
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Whilst on the thread about using 20000 fishing boats for anti-submarine warfare, someone brought up the topic of air superiority over Chinese coastal waters, as it would be required to protect those fishing boats.

Which thread is that? My thread-closing finger is itching.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Which thread is that? My thread-closing finger is itching.

Lol extreme prejudice much? :p

I think closing the thread would be an overreaction, because despite the rather fanciful idea I don't think it's breaking any forum rules.
 

FarkTypeSoldier

Junior Member
Again with the war of attrition and again with the sacrificing of Chinese people in a war. That is the type of mentality that I really do not understand. China had the money and resources now and had spent heaps in R&D, had good military hardware up and running and had lots of other systems that could be used against your opponents.

Why don't you just bring the bloody war to these opponent instead of still thinking of the great people war and that war be fought in the Chinese shore... even if you win the war, the main casualty will be Chinese people and those that sacrifices themselves because of some cheapskate systems when all you need is to just strike at your immediate opponent and force the card to them.

I believe why the Chinese had been so hard in R&D in recent decade and introducing very modern and capable systems recently was exactly to project their power to faraway shores so that in time of war, the battles will not be carried out in China mainland. So my advise is... quit thinking of defensive and focus more on offensive... even our (I am an oversea Chinese) ancestor mentioned that "久守必失" (and if you are a Chinese, you should understand that four words).

Exactly... I concur with rhino123

I thought your threads could be better except for hypothesis war scenarios.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Again with the war of attrition and again with the sacrificing of Chinese people in a war. That is the type of mentality that I really do not understand. China had the money and resources now and had spent heaps in R&D, had good military hardware up and running and had lots of other systems that could be used against your opponents.

Why don't you just bring the bloody war to these opponent instead of still thinking of the great people war and that war be fought in the Chinese shore... even if you win the war, the main casualty will be Chinese people and those that sacrifices themselves because of some cheapskate systems when all you need is to just strike at your immediate opponent and force the card to them.

I believe why the Chinese had been so hard in R&D in recent decade and introducing very modern and capable systems recently was exactly to project their power to faraway shores so that in time of war, the battles will not be carried out in China mainland. So my advise is... quit thinking of defensive and focus more on offensive... even our (I am an oversea Chinese) ancestor mentioned that "久守必失" (and if you are a Chinese, you should understand that four words).

Exactly! That was why Zhuge Liang in the 3-kingdom era at the end of Han dynasty kept attacking Kingdom of Wei even though they were weaker. He believed that the best way to keep Kingdom of Shu safe was to attack its enemy and bring the fight to them. And that was also why Mao decided to aid the North Koreans in the 1950's. Keep the fight away from the Chinese soil.

I believe that is exactly what the Chinese civilian and military leaders in the past and the present have in mind. China was primarily a defensive force before the modernization. The only way to keep China safe is to obtain the ability to attack. In fact, that is the only way to ensure that no one will attack China again. 久守必失 is such a nice way to describe the situation. When you are in defense, you have to make sure EVERY single spot along the shore is well defended. A single breach anywhere would mean the collapse of the entire defense. Offense, on the other hand, can focus on one spot and punch a hole, much easier task to accomplish.
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
Exactly! That was why Zhuge Liang in the 3-kingdom era at the end of Han dynasty kept attacking Kingdom of Wei even though they were weaker. He believed that the best way to keep Kingdom of Shu safe was to attack its enemy and bring the fight to them.


Notice in the end the attacks achieved nothing, exhausted Shu Han, and made it easier for Shu Han to be utterly extinguished by Wei a few years later.

Shu may have had no real choice, but nonetheless their actions shows the most likely outcome of such a course as they were forced to pursue. So when one has an array of real choices, it is total folly to willfully not see the choices and trap oneself into this course of action, especially out of sheer pride.
 
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