Afghanistan Military & News
- Thread starter SouthernSky
- Start date
Dizasta1
Senior Member
Pukhtun Afghans, who are true Afghans, must sever all ties, both superficial or actual (if there are any left), with the devil's spawn which is Al-Qaeda Wahhabi/Salafi psychotic, murdering terrorists. An overwhelming realization has set in among the Pukhtun Afghans, over the past two decades, that Al-Qaeda Wahhabi/Salafi terrorists used "Islam" and them being Arabs of Jazeerat-ul-Arab (Arabian Peninsula), as a means of being invited and accorded respect by Muslims in Asia. When in reality, these scum, are traitors to Islam.
This sentiment, of respecting Arabs of Jazeerat-ul-Arab, is a prevalent approach of most Muslims around the world. And has been used as trap by scumbags like AQ and ISIS, to gain recognition and entry into these Muslim countries.
Pakistan, in particular, has shown historically, that it is as guilible and naive, as the rest. And Pakistan MUST recognize that AQ, ISIS & the Saudi regime, use Islam as a means of legitimizing their standing in the Muslim world. So please Pakistan, do not be that stupid and guilible, when you're approached by these clowns. Saudi regime, by nature is a trap for the entire Muslim world. Do not trust these jackals in sheep skin.
Russia, China and Pakistan should hold direct talks with Afghan Pukhtuns, who control vast territory in their homeland. Afghan Pukhtuns must establish their political representation in Afghanistan. Engage with the Pakistanis, Russians and Chinese, to work out a peaceful agreement, whereby Afghan Pukhtuns benefit economically from CPEC. Peace in Afghanistan should ONLY benefit Afghans first. Because there are foreign elements that seek to exploit the 17 year old occupation of the country for its untapped, rich mineral resources. Once peace is achieved, Afghanistan and Pakistan must work together to establish a proper irrigation network in both countries for agriculture to flourish and benefit Afghanistan. We should help them plant billions of trees in Afghanistan and Pakistan's province of Baluchistan.
To Afghanistan, China, Pakistan and Russia ... DO NOT fall into the trap of the Saudi regime and Iranian regime's power tussle in the Middle East. Nothing will come good from it, so stay well clear of both of them. Iran must step back from its active anti-Saudi activities. The Saudi regime is on its last few breaths. Let it be crushed under its own hideous weight. The collapse of the Saudi regime is inevitable.
This sentiment, of respecting Arabs of Jazeerat-ul-Arab, is a prevalent approach of most Muslims around the world. And has been used as trap by scumbags like AQ and ISIS, to gain recognition and entry into these Muslim countries.
Pakistan, in particular, has shown historically, that it is as guilible and naive, as the rest. And Pakistan MUST recognize that AQ, ISIS & the Saudi regime, use Islam as a means of legitimizing their standing in the Muslim world. So please Pakistan, do not be that stupid and guilible, when you're approached by these clowns. Saudi regime, by nature is a trap for the entire Muslim world. Do not trust these jackals in sheep skin.
Russia, China and Pakistan should hold direct talks with Afghan Pukhtuns, who control vast territory in their homeland. Afghan Pukhtuns must establish their political representation in Afghanistan. Engage with the Pakistanis, Russians and Chinese, to work out a peaceful agreement, whereby Afghan Pukhtuns benefit economically from CPEC. Peace in Afghanistan should ONLY benefit Afghans first. Because there are foreign elements that seek to exploit the 17 year old occupation of the country for its untapped, rich mineral resources. Once peace is achieved, Afghanistan and Pakistan must work together to establish a proper irrigation network in both countries for agriculture to flourish and benefit Afghanistan. We should help them plant billions of trees in Afghanistan and Pakistan's province of Baluchistan.
To Afghanistan, China, Pakistan and Russia ... DO NOT fall into the trap of the Saudi regime and Iranian regime's power tussle in the Middle East. Nothing will come good from it, so stay well clear of both of them. Iran must step back from its active anti-Saudi activities. The Saudi regime is on its last few breaths. Let it be crushed under its own hideous weight. The collapse of the Saudi regime is inevitable.
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timepass
Brigadier
US, Taliban Agree on American Troop Withdrawal From Afghanistan – Reports...
The US delegation and the Taliban, on the last day of the fifth round of Doha talks, drafted an agreement on combating terrorism and the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan, TOLOnews reported, citing sources. The media outlet has not, however, specified the details of the deal, only saying that it was a document written in the English and Pashtu languages.
The US delegation and the Taliban, on the last day of the fifth round of Doha talks, drafted an agreement on combating terrorism and the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan, TOLOnews reported, citing sources. The media outlet has not, however, specified the details of the deal, only saying that it was a document written in the English and Pashtu languages.
timepass
Brigadier
All-Afghan Peace Summit Set for July, But On Taliban Terms
A surprise announcement by President Donald Trump seemed to accelerate the expected time frame for U.S. troop withdrawal from Afghanistan ahead of an all-Afghan peace summit planned for July 7-8 in Qatar. The gathering apparently will be held on Taliban terms as there will be no official Afghan government representation.
That pullout was expected to be announced as part of a time frame being negotiated by Washington's peace envoy Zalmay Khalilzad, who is in the middle of talks with the Taliban in Qatar.
"I've wanted to pull them out. And you know, I have pulled a lot out. We were at 16,000. We're down to about 9,000, which a lot of people don't know," Trump said, according to the transcript of the interview shared with The Associated Press. "So we've reduced the force very substantially in Afghanistan, which I don't talk about very much, and that's okay," Trump added.
According to a senior U.S. defense official, however, there are still close to 14,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan - a number that has remained fairly steady for many months
A surprise announcement by President Donald Trump seemed to accelerate the expected time frame for U.S. troop withdrawal from Afghanistan ahead of an all-Afghan peace summit planned for July 7-8 in Qatar. The gathering apparently will be held on Taliban terms as there will be no official Afghan government representation.
That pullout was expected to be announced as part of a time frame being negotiated by Washington's peace envoy Zalmay Khalilzad, who is in the middle of talks with the Taliban in Qatar.
"I've wanted to pull them out. And you know, I have pulled a lot out. We were at 16,000. We're down to about 9,000, which a lot of people don't know," Trump said, according to the transcript of the interview shared with The Associated Press. "So we've reduced the force very substantially in Afghanistan, which I don't talk about very much, and that's okay," Trump added.
According to a senior U.S. defense official, however, there are still close to 14,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan - a number that has remained fairly steady for many months
timepass
Brigadier
Kunduz attack aftermath
A powerful image depicting two contrasts i.e Taliban with plastic sandals collecting weapons from surrendered Afghan Army,Police troops wearing modern combat gear.
Looks like Most modern mil hardware including Helis would fall to Taliban post withdrawal...
A powerful image depicting two contrasts i.e Taliban with plastic sandals collecting weapons from surrendered Afghan Army,Police troops wearing modern combat gear.
Looks like Most modern mil hardware including Helis would fall to Taliban post withdrawal...
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
I wanted to comment on a post/Rant made by @Mohsin77 in another thread however it seemed to be inappropriate to that venue. Far more so here given the last reports and context.
The key issues that have played as current situation developed in both have less to do with actual on the ground combat and more to do with the Political realities on the ground. Remember the Russians were in Afghanistan to with Armored divisions although no one has tried to deploy their Navy to Afghanistan... perhaps there is a reason why? I kid.
On the ground the nation has no nationality. Both Iraq and Afghanistan are tribal clans who happen to reside in a set of drawn boarders. The Dictatorship in Iraq held it together. The fact that one of these sects had all the guns, airplanes and tanks kept the others in line.
In Afghanistan it was and remains in many ways a different story. After the King was deposed and then the Saur Revolution deposed them, Typical land reform schemes like those seen in China and Russia were to be implemented. However the rural populations had no interest then or now in that. So they started fighting back. The Soviets joined in to back the Socialists and the war was on. Since the. The nation hasn’t existed in any real way. The The Socialist government reigned but it’s reign like the current Afghanistan government is disputable it fell and the Taliban took over... to a point. Because the population was happy to go along and get along so long as it was understood that it was t Kabul in charge really it was the local chieftain.
Boots on the ground might have won battles like Tora Bora however the critical factors would still have been lacking. Infrastructure, stability and leadership.
You can work to build what the locals want but not what they don’t. You can’t change what they won’t change and you have to have clear guidelines of objectives. Afghanistan’s infrastructures weren’t there. Even the Taliban never had total control. They were always fighting each other. The war lords were always more in control at the local level.
Corruption was always rampant and the leadership in country was more self interested well the leadership in Washington was alway less interested. The. You factor in so called allies And self denial. The Pakistani Intelligence service and government have been happy to use militants in the region as a cudgel to destabilize potential rivals.
We know they were in bed with the Taliban pre 9/11 with a strong case for post 9/11 to this day.
The Taliban when stressed ran to Pakistan and Pakistan aided them and Al Qaida. They operate under this fiction of good Taliban and bad Taliban. Good Taliban they support those being the ones who fight against Indian or Kabul the bad being those who turn on Islamabad and Rawalpindi. However they are One and the same shifting back and forth with the tides, the US rooted it’s self to Pakistan as the regional ally in hopes that they would assist in stability.https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/01/05/why-pakistan-supports-terrorist-groups-and-why-the-us-finds-it-so-hard-to-induce-change/
The US did the same with Iran in both Afghanistan and Iraq despite the long running grudge between the US and the Islamic republic of Iran.
However this in both cases proved a Faustian bargain. Appeasements of Pakistan created safe zones where in Taliban forces could attack from and retreat to without fear of retaliation.
Iran took advantage of the situation by supplying arms and IED technology to the forces the US ended up fighting.
These factors would have remained unchanged had the US employed Millions of SF forces or Armored divisions. This also factors to Leadership.
the Past Administrations and current one didn’t want to or know how to stabilize the nations in question. They went to their military commanders yet they to Like in Vietnam could win the battles, they couldn’t win the peace. Although The US has taken loses they took fewer than their foes. In terms of combat effectiveness the US reigns but interims of establishing stability it’s an epic disaster.
When they realize the Leadership realize the trap they have created they knee jerk to jump out. looking to save face well digging a new hole. This is the Withdrawal agreement. Which leaves no protections for the Kabul government and survives simply because the Administration is in denial and willing to happily listen to lies. Those lies being
1) that the Taliban will talk with the Kabul government.
2) That the Taliban will fight AQ
3) The Taliban deal will prevent the reset of Afghanistan to a terrorist safe havens and training camps.
Basically it didn’t matter if SOF or Conventional.
I don’t think that SF vs non SF would have made a difference in Afghanistan or Iraq @Moshin.
The key issues that have played as current situation developed in both have less to do with actual on the ground combat and more to do with the Political realities on the ground. Remember the Russians were in Afghanistan to with Armored divisions although no one has tried to deploy their Navy to Afghanistan... perhaps there is a reason why? I kid.
On the ground the nation has no nationality. Both Iraq and Afghanistan are tribal clans who happen to reside in a set of drawn boarders. The Dictatorship in Iraq held it together. The fact that one of these sects had all the guns, airplanes and tanks kept the others in line.
In Afghanistan it was and remains in many ways a different story. After the King was deposed and then the Saur Revolution deposed them, Typical land reform schemes like those seen in China and Russia were to be implemented. However the rural populations had no interest then or now in that. So they started fighting back. The Soviets joined in to back the Socialists and the war was on. Since the. The nation hasn’t existed in any real way. The The Socialist government reigned but it’s reign like the current Afghanistan government is disputable it fell and the Taliban took over... to a point. Because the population was happy to go along and get along so long as it was understood that it was t Kabul in charge really it was the local chieftain.
Boots on the ground might have won battles like Tora Bora however the critical factors would still have been lacking. Infrastructure, stability and leadership.
You can work to build what the locals want but not what they don’t. You can’t change what they won’t change and you have to have clear guidelines of objectives. Afghanistan’s infrastructures weren’t there. Even the Taliban never had total control. They were always fighting each other. The war lords were always more in control at the local level.
Corruption was always rampant and the leadership in country was more self interested well the leadership in Washington was alway less interested. The. You factor in so called allies And self denial. The Pakistani Intelligence service and government have been happy to use militants in the region as a cudgel to destabilize potential rivals.
We know they were in bed with the Taliban pre 9/11 with a strong case for post 9/11 to this day.
The Taliban when stressed ran to Pakistan and Pakistan aided them and Al Qaida. They operate under this fiction of good Taliban and bad Taliban. Good Taliban they support those being the ones who fight against Indian or Kabul the bad being those who turn on Islamabad and Rawalpindi. However they are One and the same shifting back and forth with the tides, the US rooted it’s self to Pakistan as the regional ally in hopes that they would assist in stability.https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/01/05/why-pakistan-supports-terrorist-groups-and-why-the-us-finds-it-so-hard-to-induce-change/
The US did the same with Iran in both Afghanistan and Iraq despite the long running grudge between the US and the Islamic republic of Iran.
However this in both cases proved a Faustian bargain. Appeasements of Pakistan created safe zones where in Taliban forces could attack from and retreat to without fear of retaliation.
Iran took advantage of the situation by supplying arms and IED technology to the forces the US ended up fighting.
These factors would have remained unchanged had the US employed Millions of SF forces or Armored divisions. This also factors to Leadership.
the Past Administrations and current one didn’t want to or know how to stabilize the nations in question. They went to their military commanders yet they to Like in Vietnam could win the battles, they couldn’t win the peace. Although The US has taken loses they took fewer than their foes. In terms of combat effectiveness the US reigns but interims of establishing stability it’s an epic disaster.
When they realize the Leadership realize the trap they have created they knee jerk to jump out. looking to save face well digging a new hole. This is the Withdrawal agreement. Which leaves no protections for the Kabul government and survives simply because the Administration is in denial and willing to happily listen to lies. Those lies being
1) that the Taliban will talk with the Kabul government.
2) That the Taliban will fight AQ
3) The Taliban deal will prevent the reset of Afghanistan to a terrorist safe havens and training camps.
Basically it didn’t matter if SOF or Conventional.
There's a lot to unpack here, but I'll start with this, as it's most relevant for my own interests:
The basic point that the Delta operator was making, was this: He said that the US showed no real commitment to achieving victory, and this also answers your complaint against Pakistan. You can say that we (Pakistanis) didn't do our part to help you. But when you began the war by deploying only a thousand troops, what exactly did you expect? What message did you send to GHQ in Rawalpindi (my town of birth)?
Think about it... 9/11 happens, and literally the whole planet was on America's side (even Iran was holding candlelight vigils)
Then America throws a fit and tells everyone "with us or against us"
Pakistan says "Okay, but if you're going into Afghanistan, you better do it right."
America says, "No, we'll just send in 1000 troops, should be enough. Just shut up and support us, or we will bomb you too."
Pakistan's like "...Fine dude, whatever."
Yes, the US got screwed over, and it totally deserved it. Why? Because the alternative was that Pakistan was going to be left holding a bag full of rabid militants after the US (inevitably) lost and left the region. At least now we don't have to worry about a hostile Afghani Taliban. Besides, we've been abandoned by the US before, and we're not stupid enough to get screwed over twice.
As for helping AQ/Osama, that wasn't official policy, that was rogue ideological elements within our ISI that actually harmed Pakistani national security. Such elements exist in all intelligence organizations that have total autonomy with practically zero oversight. I can tell you from personal accounts that Musharraf had no idea OBL was even alive, let alone in Abottabad.
But getting back to the point: The fact is that the US never committed to winning. "Winning" wasn't even on the agenda. The only 'strategy' the US had was corporate greed, filling the pockets of corporations like Halliburton. If America's excuse for losing Afghanistan is Pakistan, then what's the excuse for lying about "WMDs" in Iraq, and creating a total clusterf***k there? The Muslim world paid for this war in blood, but in the long-run, the US is going to pay for it with its empire.
The beginning of America's downfall began in 2001, when it launched its 'global war on terror.' All those chickens are coming home to roost now, and every skeleton the US ever had in its closet is falling out. The US has been gas-lighting and bleeding its own population dry for decades. The same corruptions which took the US to war, are the same corruptions that caused the 2008 financial crash, and all its continuing and cascading political effects that we are seeing today. People are looking at everything now, re-examining the very foundations of the US ethic for the first time, from its racism to genocides... This is how some empires end, you know, from the inside.
The basic point that the Delta operator was making, was this: He said that the US showed no real commitment to achieving victory, and this also answers your complaint against Pakistan. You can say that we (Pakistanis) didn't do our part to help you. But when you began the war by deploying only a thousand troops, what exactly did you expect? What message did you send to GHQ in Rawalpindi (my town of birth)?
Think about it... 9/11 happens, and literally the whole planet was on America's side (even Iran was holding candlelight vigils)
Then America throws a fit and tells everyone "with us or against us"
Pakistan says "Okay, but if you're going into Afghanistan, you better do it right."
America says, "No, we'll just send in 1000 troops, should be enough. Just shut up and support us, or we will bomb you too."
Pakistan's like "...Fine dude, whatever."
Yes, the US got screwed over, and it totally deserved it. Why? Because the alternative was that Pakistan was going to be left holding a bag full of rabid militants after the US (inevitably) lost and left the region. At least now we don't have to worry about a hostile Afghani Taliban. Besides, we've been abandoned by the US before, and we're not stupid enough to get screwed over twice.
As for helping AQ/Osama, that wasn't official policy, that was rogue ideological elements within our ISI that actually harmed Pakistani national security. Such elements exist in all intelligence organizations that have total autonomy with practically zero oversight. I can tell you from personal accounts that Musharraf had no idea OBL was even alive, let alone in Abottabad.
But getting back to the point: The fact is that the US never committed to winning. "Winning" wasn't even on the agenda. The only 'strategy' the US had was corporate greed, filling the pockets of corporations like Halliburton. If America's excuse for losing Afghanistan is Pakistan, then what's the excuse for lying about "WMDs" in Iraq, and creating a total clusterf***k there? The Muslim world paid for this war in blood, but in the long-run, the US is going to pay for it with its empire.
The beginning of America's downfall began in 2001, when it launched its 'global war on terror.' All those chickens are coming home to roost now, and every skeleton the US ever had in its closet is falling out. The US has been gas-lighting and bleeding its own population dry for decades. The same corruptions which took the US to war, are the same corruptions that caused the 2008 financial crash, and all its continuing and cascading political effects that we are seeing today. People are looking at everything now, re-examining the very foundations of the US ethic for the first time, from its racism to genocides... This is how some empires end, you know, from the inside.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
This here is the biggest single aspect that dragged it out. In this we agree.
It may sound like I am tossing Pakistan under the Bus, And I am. But only so far as it should have been obvious that they had and have their own chosen motivations and objectives that ran contrary to those few objectives of the US. ISI then and now has played both sides.
You point back to Tora Bora with the Quote. part of the failure there was that the locals had been entrusted to cordon off the escape route. Either by not consulting, not caring or Wishful thinking that doesn’t match reality that didn’t happen. I also throw the Afghan northern alliance under the bus. You can’t establish stability where there is no interest just as you cannot start a civil war without strife already in the works. That’s both members of three administrations for the US, allies and Afghanistan under the bus. Failure of objectives, negligence and rampant corruption. Including the most recent as if the President just wanted out there is no reason to legitimize the Taliban by negotiation. No Deal is better than a terrible deal. Under the Bus and hit the gas then slap her in reverse because we could play it all again in Iraq. But Where Afghanistan will return to the Dystopian romance of 9/10/01 Iraq has its own issues. And in that I throw the Bush administration back under the bus again. Yet I also give VP Biden a special tour of the buses suspension as he failed to get an easy deal from the a Iraqis for sustinment
next the US has never been an Empire. Had it been the maps of Europe and Aisa would be dramatically different. I see the forum riff with this, the Soviets were probably saying the same thing in 74.
Heck we could do this whole game for the Ukraine and Russia and Russia and Iran in Syria. The fall of Putin starts in Sochi....