Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter III
I'll have to think about that, I see your point, but it also increases wing area and camber, and practically lowers the angle of incidence of the wing to the fuselage, increasing visibility over the nose on take off and landing, but then you are the engineer and I'm just the air force Brat. You did make me put my thinking cap on. LOL
---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 PM ----------
Yeah I figured you wouldn't, so you don't believe fluid dynamics as applied to aircraft also applies to Indy cars, but you do agree don't you that the negative pitch on the front spoiler applies down force to keep the body from lifting? Yes Sammo, Sammo, If you further increased the negative pitch on the long coupled canard the nose will go down.........? Yes You also note that the canard may move a lot without affecting pitch, I do slightly agree, the canard is the Primary, pitch control..... Ruddervator is the secondary as well as Elevons on trailing edge. The FBW may be calibrated to allow a large deflections of the canard, before coming in with more generous deflections of Ruddervator and Elevons as stick moves further aft, MY THEORY?
I'll have to think about that, I see your point, but it also increases wing area and camber, and practically lowers the angle of incidence of the wing to the fuselage, increasing visibility over the nose on take off and landing, but then you are the engineer and I'm just the air force Brat. You did make me put my thinking cap on. LOL
---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 PM ----------
The canards were tested at several positions
and deflected from -10 to +10 degrees. In addition,
configurations consisting of a horizontal tail and a
canard with horizontal tails are analyzed.
The results of the analysis inidcate that
DO you understand what the sentence in addition means? it means the study was done also to triplane configuration, not that the study was done only to triplane configurations, also the position was studied, which means they moved aft and forward the canard
---------- Post added at 05:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 PM ----------
If you see Figure 1 -Sketch of Models, you can see the studied the horizontal separetion of the canards, which is confirmed in page 11 by this
"The effect of longitudinal canard position on the aerodynamic characteristics
of the 50-degree model had been well established by the time
the transonic wind-tunnel program was run. "
This was done in the previous study true but the position also have horizontal separetion and figure 100 shows it with P1 and P2 having the largest horizontal separation and gap bewteen wing and canard , but here is where the study becomes clearer, if the J-20 has a canard long coupled canard, but the canad position is near the center of gravity, which is detrimental as pitch control, plus the J-20 has not a very large horizontal gap between the wing and the canard, plus J-20 has not a vey large horizontal gap to say the canard has not effect on vortex lift.
Song said the canard was mover forward to increase pitch lever arm, why? simple simple,if you have seen X-36 JAST or any american stealth fighter with canard, you will see they set the canard and wing at the same level, this is detrimental to lift, but benefitial for stealth so what the chinese did is add a LERX.
This is in part confirmed by the paper
"The effect of canard longitudinal position on the incremental pitching
moment is shown in Figure 25. Data are for Mach numbers from 0.6 to 1.10
and the canard positions are P 1 and P As expected, moving the canard
forward increases the incremental pitching moment"
However if you see the distance of X-31`s canard and the wing you see J-20 has not such a large horizontal gap, not even compared to Eurofighter, it only has a large gap compared to Rafale or IAI lavi
He even claims canard and LERXes increase lift at high AoA, which means some vortex lift exists.
And my point was negative deflections do not mean pitch down at high AoA, i do not agree with you because a car and indy car in this case is not flying at high AoA but straight at 0 degrees
Yeah I figured you wouldn't, so you don't believe fluid dynamics as applied to aircraft also applies to Indy cars, but you do agree don't you that the negative pitch on the front spoiler applies down force to keep the body from lifting? Yes Sammo, Sammo, If you further increased the negative pitch on the long coupled canard the nose will go down.........? Yes You also note that the canard may move a lot without affecting pitch, I do slightly agree, the canard is the Primary, pitch control..... Ruddervator is the secondary as well as Elevons on trailing edge. The FBW may be calibrated to allow a large deflections of the canard, before coming in with more generous deflections of Ruddervator and Elevons as stick moves further aft, MY THEORY?