2019 India-Pakistani border clash

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Mohsin77

Mohsin77

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Viktor Jav said:
I have yet to see any article that David Axe put out that is overly biased or slighted
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A few weeks ago Axe's articles almost got banned on this forum. Now granted, I don't think Axe should be banned, but personally I still never cite his material to support my arguments, because that would be ridiculous lolz. If someone wants to use Axe for entertainment purposes on a non-contentious issue, sure. But for something like this... no.

Just look the caliber of sources that we presented and then compare them to Maint's. That itself proves his trolling tendencies, since he is clearly trying to destroy the level of discussion here purposefully.
 
timepass

timepass

Brigadier
ougoah said:
Now Indians having to deal with radical Islamists is indeed unfortunate and militarily a difficult problem. A different discussion to this one though. So while many of our personal thoughts may align with those of Indian's in that respect, we shouldn't let that discussion warp what the facts are here and ignore the need for evidence ie F-16 shoot down etc.
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Its a humble request, don't discredit their's (Kashmiri people) struggle for the use of their right for self determination with non-related issues. Same I highlighted in the same thread earlier.

There are several UN resolutions for the same but due to dirty politics these people are suffering for than 7 decades now.


timepass said:
Wish world should see the massacre what India is doing in Kashmir since 7 decades but its really pathetic that world is constantly ignoring due to different interests at the cost of humanity....really pathetic...sad....not to forget there are 700,000 Indian army personnel in Kashmir....

There are several UN resolutions for right of self determination for Kashmiri people.... don't know when world will wake up maybe waiting for thousands of more Kashmiri people lives....

What Pakistan is saying since inception, let Kashmiri people decide their fate... weather they want to join Pakistan or they want Independent state or want to stay with India....let them decide.

Now the time is world should interfere....let the UN resolutions exercise....
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D

Deleted member 13312

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ougoah said:
No I did not say Axe wrote that F16 was shot down. Maint used the mentioning of the F16 as if to suggest its shooting down was a fact. At least that's how it is interpreted. Why else mention it?
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The problem is that that is how you interpreted it, which is incorrect as now where in that article did it, again, conclusively states such. Instead you choose to immediately disparage the article without actually looking through it in detail. Anyone who did will clearly see that Maint was clearly in the wrong.
 
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maint1234

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Five of six designated targets were hit in Balakot airstrike: IAF review
According to sources, the operation had planned to use six Israeli Spice 2000 Penetrator type PGM (precision-guided munition) to hit the targets, and five of them had hit the designated mean point of impact (DMPI) on the buildings in the Balakot complex.
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|New Delhi |Updated: April 25, 2019 6:58:53 am
balakot-12.jpg
Pakistani reporters and troops visit the site of the Indian airstrike in Jabha, near Balakot, Pakistan. (Source: AP/File)
An Indian Air Force review of its February 26 air strike on
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in Pakistan has shown that its aircraft hit five of six designated mean point of impact (DMPI) on buildings in the Jaish-e-Mohammad terror training complex. The detailed review, two sources conversant with it told
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, focuses on the strengths, weaknesses and lessons learnt from the air operation.
While acknowledging there could be a better weapon to target-matching and a better feedback loop to win the propaganda war, the review has highlighted the positives in terms of maintaining surprise, security of operations, pilot proficiency and accuracy of the weapon used. It also has hitherto unpublished details of the operation based on extensive debriefing and assessment.
According to sources, the operation had planned to use six Israeli
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2000 Penetrator type PGM (precision-guided munition) to hit the targets, and five of them had hit the designated mean point of impact (DMPI) on the buildings in the Balakot complex.
One PGM, sources said, did not leave the Mirage 2000 aircraft because it is a 35-year old legacy aircraft and there was drift in the inertial navigation system. It meant that there was a mismatch between the location seen by the PGM and the aircraft at the point of the delivery of the PGM, which led to it not being fired from the aircraft.

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Click image to enlarge
Moreover, the IAF had also carried the Crystal Maze AGM 142 munition along with the Spice 2000 to hit the target. The Crystal Maze PGM could not, however, be fired because of heavy cloud cover which did not allow pilots to have a line of sight over the target area.

EXPLAINED
Honest review is critical
The review highlights that full surprise was achieved through selection of target, means of operation and use of deception. It also looks at the weaknesses and lessons learnt from the operation because honest appraisals only add to its capabilities.
With its backward data linkage, Crystal Maze would have provided a video image of the target being hit which would have helped IAF quell doubts raised in the international media about the effectiveness of its air strike.
In hindsight, we achieved our aim, hitting five of the six DMPI. Only one was unused. But considering the nature of the propaganda war that needed to be won, we could have used a weapon which would have flattened the target and we could have also sent a platform that gets us clear images or video of the destruction,” sources said.
The IAF has Spice 2000 penetrator type PGM, and not Spice 2000 Mark 84, in its inventory which can be fired from a stand-off distance — in this case, from the Indian side of the Line of Control. One of the rules of engagement stipulated for the operation was not to cross the LoC, although some Mirage 2000 aircraft, which were trying to fire Crystal Maze, did cross over to the other side to get a better line of sight on the target."

The difference in official discourse is stark.
While the Pakistanis tweeted, press conferenced and leaked and changed info, the iaf has a very studied and systematic approach to its information release.
I predict that in a few weeks, leaked photos of the destruction in Balakot will emerge. No wonder ispr did not allow free access to the madrassa.

 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
maint1234 said:
Five of six designated targets were hit in Balakot airstrike: IAF review
According to sources, the operation had planned to use six Israeli Spice 2000 Penetrator type PGM (precision-guided munition) to hit the targets, and five of them had hit the designated mean point of impact (DMPI) on the buildings in the Balakot complex.
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|New Delhi |Updated: April 25, 2019 6:58:53 am
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Last sentence says, "I predict that in a few weeks, leaked photos of the destruction in Balakot will emerge. No wonder ispr did not allow free access to the madrassa."

This means the author is guessing, and substituting evidence with conjecture, just like all Indian media.
Reread https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/2019-india-pakistani-border-clash.t8429/page-65#post-550932
You need evidence, not claims. India has made many claims and can make many more. But they have no evidence.
 
S

Skywatcher

Captain
Honestly, I don't know why the Indian media (and the Indian military public affairs officers, at least a couple weeks ago) has picked this hill to die on.

Insisting that "truth isn't truth" doesn't just diminish their credibility, it also draws attention back to the whole mess (frankly, it'd be forgotten about by now if they didn't keep on dragging this horse carcass out again for a good post mortem flogging).
 
timepass

timepass

Brigadier
Skywatcher said:
Honestly, I don't know why the Indian media (and the Indian military public affairs officers, at least a couple weeks ago) has picked this hill to die on.

Insisting that "truth isn't truth" doesn't just diminish their credibility, it also draws attention back to the whole mess (frankly, it'd be forgotten about by now if they didn't keep on dragging this horse carcass out again for a good post mortem flogging).
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Because since almost last 2 decades Indians are so very use to that whatever they say world would believe it (Thanks to their hawkish media & strong lobbies around the world) but now in this case (Boarder clash event) with Pakistan this is not happening & Indians just cant able to digest that.
 
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